17 Aug 04
1 edit
Originally posted by MayharmNo, I'm not asking him to change the contents of his party program. I'm suggesting he should change the strategies he is using to realise his political goals and to be more prudent and patient in the future. Shavez is now offering reconciliation to his opponents. I hope something will come out of this. Of course it depends on what Shavez has to offer. If it is wind he has to offer, nobody nor from the left nor from the right should expect something to come out of Shavez's proposal. For a good politician it isn't enough to have the correct ideas. He should also have an insight in how to operate and how to proceed in what direction on a given time. He should know when to go forward and when to give in. I'm afraid Shavez will experience the same fate Salvador Allende suffered. He will be removed by the US supported opposition by staging a right-winged coup d'état.
In other words... you are asking him to quit.
If we asked bush to change his policies, give up the pro-life, anti-gay stance, he would not last one month politically if he did so. Additionally bush would then no longer be a republican (b ...[text shortened]... eople will suffer more in the long term should he quit.
MÅ¥HÅRM
17 Aug 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeOk that sounds fair enough, but the thing is you are suggesting change, but not specifying what he should change. That makes it sound a little like you want him to "turn", as it were.
No, I'm not asking him to change the contents of his party program. I'm suggesting he should change the strategies he is using to realise his political goals and to be more prudent and patient in the future. Shavez is now offering reconciliation to his opponents. I hope something will come out of this. Of course it depends on what Shavez has to offer. If ...[text shortened]... . He will be removed by the US supported opposition by staging a right-winged coup d'état.
I'd need to know what changes you would suggest before I could comment further (though I already have with regards to europe, the only one I have seen from you so far).
MÅ¥HÅRM
17 Aug 04
Originally posted by Mayharm
Ok that sounds fair enough, but the thing is you are suggesting change, but not specifying what he should change. That makes it sound a little like you want him to "turn", as it were.
I'd need to know what changes you would suggest before I could comment further (though I already have with regards to europe, the only one I have seen from you so far).
MÅ¥HÅRM
The most sensitive subject is of course the future of the countries oil industry and the distribution of the oil revenues. Don't expect me to lay out a plan how exactly Shavez should do this. I would suggest to him to seek support in Europe to get as much as possible from the oil revenues for the benefit of the people. I don't think he will be able to stop privatisation with the "help" of Fidel Castro. In the eyes of his opponents this is one reason more to advocate and pursue the privatisation of the oil industry.
17 Aug 04
1 edit
Tuesday, July 27, 2004
CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- Immigration officials played a role in an alleged paramilitary plot to assassinate President Hugo Chavez, a top federal investigator said Tuesday.
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/07/27/venezuela.immigration.ap/index.html
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Venezuelan military officers face arrest on coup charges.
Saturday, July 31, 2004
CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- A judge ordered the arrest of 59 former military officers for conspiring and instigating others to rebel against the government, the state-run press agency reported Saturday.
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/07/31/venezuela.plot.ap/index.html
17 Aug 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeHow exactly is privatising the oil industry going to help Venezuela?
The most sensitive subject is of course the future of the countries oil industry and the distribution of the oil revenues. Don't expect me to lay out a plan how exactly Shavez should do this. I would suggest to him to seek support in Europe to get as much as possible from the oil revenues for the benefit of the people. I don't think he will be able to s ...[text shortened]... pponents this is one reason more to advocate and pursue the privatisation of the oil industry.
I understand it will get the US (and it's cronies) off chavez's back, but that would be to admit defeat, that it is the US that really controls Venezuela. Which would ultimately be disasterous, the country will never rise above the repeated cycle of revolt if that happens.
MÅ¥HÅRM
17 Aug 04
Originally posted by MayharmMayharm: "How exactly is privatising the oil industry going to help Venezuela?"
How exactly is privatising the oil industry going to help Venezuela?
I understand it will get the US (and it's cronies) off chavez's back, but that would be to admit defeat, that it is the US that really controls Venezuela. Which would ultimately be disasterous, the country will never rise above the repeated cycle of revolt if that happens.
MÅ¥HÅRM
I don't think it will help the masses in Venezuela at all. Maybe some arrangement can be achieved in which will be regulated what the future of the oil-industry will be and how the oil revenues will be distributed. Whether privatisation is a part of this agreement of course will depend on what the parties want and how the other issues in the agreement will be formulated.
17 Aug 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeI dont wish to be mean about this ivan, but you are being terribly vague...
Mayharm: "How exactly is privatising the oil industry going to help Venezuela?"
I don't think it will help the masses in Venezuela at all. Maybe some arrangement can be achieved in which will be regulated what the future of the oil-industry will be and how the oil revenues will be distributed. Whether privatisation is a part of this agreement of course ...[text shortened]... end on what the parties want and how the other issues in the agreement will be formulated.
Either privatisation is the/a solution or it isn't.
What you now appear to be saying is that a compromise would help the situation. This is so often true, however I dont think the problem with compromise lies with chavez.
The US is notoriously uncompromising in it's dealings with the less powerfull. Democracy and only democracy. Free trade and only free trade. Privatisation and only privatisation. The same pattern repeated over and over. They've made it quite clear they think chavez is the root of the problem...and again, I dont think they'll compromise.
MÅ¥HÅRM
18 Aug 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeMaybe Bush should moderate the strategies he is adopting to realise his political goals? Maybe Bush should be patient and prudent?
No, I'm not asking him to change the contents of his party program. I'm suggesting he should change the strategies he is using to realise his political goals and to be more prudent and patient in the future. Shavez is now offering reconciliation to his opponents. I hope something will come out of this. Of course it depends on what Shavez has to offer. If ...[text shortened]... . He will be removed by the US supported opposition by staging a right-winged coup d'état.
What gives the US the right to impose its views (never mind its partially-winged coups) on other sovereign nations?
18 Aug 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeI don't think privitisation has EVER helped the masses.
Mayharm: "How exactly is privatising the oil industry going to help Venezuela?"
I don't think it will help the masses in Venezuela at all. Maybe some arrangement can be achieved in which will be regulated what the future of the oil-industry will be and how the oil revenues will be distributed. Whether privatisation is a part of this agreement of course ...[text shortened]... end on what the parties want and how the other issues in the agreement will be formulated.
It certainly helps a few to riches, but the masses? na....
The rich want their greedy paws covered in oil. And the US always seems to support the rich. Generally because the rich fund their two main political parties.
And he who pays the piper calls the tune!
BUT:
I can't wait for the US elections. I can just see all these third world countries lining up to shout: "INVALID" and "WE WANT A RECOUNT"
I do actually believe Cuba offered to send monitors after the Florida debacle last time. Who wants to bet there'll be a hell of a lot more countries offering monitors no matter what the outcome this time!