Originally posted by empovsunMajor corporations? Billionaires? Why do you suppose that either is needed? They aren't. They're part of the problem, not the solution.
lol, what major corporation will start that up? or billionaire?
"if equal time, effort and money were put into that as is wasted on the political system.."
if only. raising awareness about other options in the political system will eventually entice the media to talk about them more. if there was solid polling and a real grassroots push, it could al ...[text shortened]... constitution party, or the justice party (sorry green party, you get an A for being annoying).
The fact is that an enormous amount of time, effort and money is poured into the political system by ordinary people, with very little to show for it at the end of the day. If those inputs were instead put into establishing worker owned businesses, the returns would far exceed those gained through the political system.
Instead of counting on political representatives to make the economy work for ordinary people, they could just directly build that economy themselves and forget about the politicians. The results would be far greater.
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by rwingettOk then, run along and vote "D" down the line like you always do.
The political system is almost a complete waste of time. This pipe dream of getting a third party going is guaranteed to accomplish nothing. If progressives want to see real, lasting progress, they should instead work on building up economic democracy through the establishment of worker owned cooperative businesses. If equal time, effort and money were put into that as is wasted on the political system then you'd see tangible progress in short order.
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by whodeyI vote for some Greens here and there. One shouldn't abandon politics. Blocking the insanity of Republicans is still worthwhile. What should be abandoned is the idea that the political sphere is the proper (or sole) avenue for enacting transformative change.
Ok then, run along and vote "D" down the line like you always do.
21 Jul 13
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettYou are right. The GOP was too busy running up deficits, letting illegals into the country, and warmongering around the world. Thanks God the Democrats are in power. 🙄
I vote for some Greens here and there. One shouldn't abandon politics. Blocking the insanity of Republicans is still worthwhile. What should be abandoned is the idea that the political sphere is the proper (or sole) avenue for enacting transformative change.
Just admit it, you think the DNC is making progress, so take back the whole "wasted system" hypocritical hysteria. I simply don't believe you.
My guess is that you are genuinely ashamed of supporting Mr. Police state, so you distance yourself by such disingenuous comments. Whatever.
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by whodeyI'm not going to waste my time defending the Democrats. They're on the payroll of big business just as much as the Republicans. If we had a parliamentary system, with proportional representation, I would never vote Democrat again. I'd vote straight Green. The only thing that keeps me voting for them now is my visceral hatred of the Republicans.
You are right. The GOP was too busy running up deficits, letting illegals into the country, and warmongering around the world. Thanks God the Democrats are in power. 🙄
Just admit it, you think the DNC is making progress, so take back the whole "wasted system" hypocritical hysteria. I simply don't believe you.
My guess is that you are genuinely asha ...[text shortened]... pporting Mr. Police state, so you distance yourself by such disingenuous comments. Whatever.
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by rwingettWell then, you are part of the problem.
I'm not going to waste my time defending the Democrats. They're on the payroll of big business just as much as the Republicans. If we had a parliamentary system, with proportional representation, I would never vote Democrat again. I'd vote straight Green. The only thing that keeps me voting for them now is my visceral hatred of the Republicans.
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by whodeySo you would favour amending the Constitution to enact electoral reforms?
All this reminds me of a guy I met the other day. He said he was a libertarian, so I asked if he voted libertarian last election. He just smiled and nodded his head no because he said he was also a pragmatist.
This country is so screwed.
21 Jul 13
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Originally posted by rwingettyea thats a valid idea but...
Major corporations? Billionaires? Why do you suppose that either is needed? They aren't. They're part of the problem, not the solution.
The fact is that an enormous amount of time, effort and money is poured into the political system by ordinary people, with very little to show for it at the end of the day. If those inputs were instead put into establish ...[text shortened]... ld that economy themselves and forget about the politicians. The results would be far greater.
about half the states have already taken most of the power from unions so...
how do you suggest we take down the 'right to work' laws without politics? suing the state??
you can't kick a rock without involving politics in this country
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by rwingettyou should just vote for the green party now
I'm not going to waste my time defending the Democrats. They're on the payroll of big business just as much as the Republicans. If we had a parliamentary system, with proportional representation, I would never vote Democrat again. I'd vote straight Green. The only thing that keeps me voting for them now is my visceral hatred of the Republicans.
im more of an independent, but i voted libertarian last election
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by KazetNagorraChanging the Constitution is not necessary. There's no Constitutional reason we couldn't have proportional representation for the House of Representatives now. There's a Federal law against it, but that could be changed:
So you would favour amending the Constitution to enact electoral reforms?
Section. 4.
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of choosing Senators...
If that Federal law were to be struck down, states with more than one Representative could opt to implement a system of proportional representation for their House elections.
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by empovsunYou don't seem to have a clear idea of what I'm talking about. Nowhere did I mention unions. Nor is their continued existence even necessary for the proliferation of worker cooperatives. As worker-owners would not need a union, right to work laws would become superfluous. The fact is that there is a small, but growing number of worker cooperatives in this country now whose existence did not require any electoral wrangling.
yea thats a valid idea but...
about half the states have already taken most of the power from unions so...
how do you suggest we take down the 'right to work' laws without politics? suing the state??
you can't kick a rock without involving politics in this country
21 Jul 13
Originally posted by rwingettNot true. You continue to give them their support. The first step will be to take the consent away from the two parties that govern, much like a Congress we have now with only a 9% approval rating. At least the illusion of democracy will be gone forever.
I'm not the problem. The electoral system is the problem.