Debates
24 Oct 12
25 Oct 12
Originally posted by kbear1kEnlighten me.
"Why Republicans? Because Obama will destroy American wealth at a rate seen only in the Great Depression, and because he will implement economic policies so catastrophic that economic growth in this country will be destroyed for a generation"
You really don't have a clue do you.
25 Oct 12
Originally posted by KazetNagorraYour country in particular very much resents having to bail out the people of the olive for their profligacy. Your country is the only of of the six remaining AAA-rated countries not facing a downgrade. Your public spending is a very healthy 50% of GDP, and you very wisely demanded collateral for your contribution to bailout funds. But that's Finland. You asked about Greece.
Tell me some things you know about Greece and the Eurozone sovereign debt crisis.
Yesterday, Greek leaders failed to come to terms on the €13.5 billion "austerity" package that Euro leaders like Angela Merkel demanded to release the next round of stimulus payments, all but guaranteeing a Greek default on its debt, an exit by Greece from the euro zone, and a slide into worldwide recession as the European market collapses, freezing both investors and exporters into the zone.
The contagion has spread to Portugal and Ireland, who are actually reasonably healthy, and Italy and Spain, who, for different reasons, are not.
Enough of a start?
25 Oct 12
Originally posted by sasquatch672It's a start, but as we say in Dutch: you heard the bell, but you don't know where the clapper is.
Your country in particular very much resents having to bail out the people of the olive for their profligacy. Your country is the only of of the six remaining AAA-rated countries not facing a downgrade. Your public spending is a very healthy 50% of GDP, and you very wisely demanded collateral for your contribution to bailout funds. But that's Finland ...[text shortened]... ly healthy, and Italy and Spain, who, for different reasons, are not.
Enough of a start?
First of all, the trigger of the eurozone crisis was obviously the 2008/2009 financial crash. Since investors tend to be morons, they implicitly assumed there was some kind of fiscal union in the eurozone, even though there wasn't. This means that up to 2008 or so most countries paid about the same interest rate on their bonds. After the 2008 investors partially realized how far their head was up their backside and suddenly demanded more interest, while at the same time government budgets were under pressure due to the crisis. In Ireland and Spain there was a real estate bubble. Italy was already in fiscal trouble before 2008, as was Portugal. In Greece, government officials had hidden deficits, which suddenly turned out to be much larger. Investors fled to triple-A countries, which now find themselves paying almost no interest on their bonds - Finnish, German and Dutch politicians may sound worried about Greece and the sovereign debt crisis, but in reality the cost of borrowing is going down massively for these countries. They are not worried about Greece.
Of course none of this has anything to do with the fiscal situation in the US, although perhaps the thing they have in common is that both Greece and the US refuse to sufficiently tax the population (especially the wealthy).
25 Oct 12
Originally posted by KazetNagorraVery nice. You missed the biggest cause of their problems. Big social programs without sufficient revenue to fund them.
It's a start, but as we say in Dutch: you heard the bell, but you don't know where the clapper is.
First of all, the trigger of the eurozone crisis was obviously the 2008/2009 financial crash. Since investors tend to be morons, they implicitly assumed there was some kind of fiscal union in the eurozone, even though there wasn't. This means that up to ...[text shortened]... at both Greece and the US refuse to sufficiently tax the population (especially the wealthy).
25 Oct 12
Originally posted by dryhumpIt seems to me that the countries with the biggest social programs in Europe also tend to have the soundest government finances. But yeah, you can't sustain spending much more then you get in.
Very nice. You missed the biggest cause of their problems. Big social programs without sufficient revenue to fund them.
25 Oct 12
Originally posted by dryhump"Of course none of this has anything to do with the fiscal situation in the US, although perhaps the thing they have in common is that both Greece and the US refuse to sufficiently tax the population (especially the wealthy)."
Very nice. You missed the biggest cause of their problems. Big social programs without sufficient revenue to fund them.
It makes more sense if you read right to the end of the post.
In regard to the Republican v Democrat thing, the furore over which fiscally conservative wing of the two party state gets to order pizza from the Oval Office is worth a giggle for most observers outside of the US Electorate.
28 Oct 12
Originally posted by whodey"As a result, I can't help but feel that either way we are screwed."
Funny you should mention Greece. For you see, Greece also championed deomcracy. They were so sure that their form of government was superior, that they tried to foce it upon Sparta. In the end a war ensued because of this that lasted a long time and helped bankrupt Greece and put an end to their prosperity.
To be blunt, looking at past Republican behavi ...[text shortened]... in fighting wars abroad. As a result, I can't help but feel that either way we are screwed.
The difference may be between BOHICA or taking it standing up.
28 Oct 12
Originally posted by KazetNagorra"both Greece and the US refuse to sufficiently tax the population (especially the wealthy)."
It's a start, but as we say in Dutch: you heard the bell, but you don't know where the clapper is.
First of all, the trigger of the eurozone crisis was obviously the 2008/2009 financial crash. Since investors tend to be morons, they implicitly assumed there was some kind of fiscal union in the eurozone, even though there wasn't. This means that up to ...[text shortened]... at both Greece and the US refuse to sufficiently tax the population (especially the wealthy).
Of course the debts of government are the fault of not enough revenue, not spending more than is taken in. You could confiscate the entire wealth of the 1% most wealthy, and not pay off the accumulated debt. Increasing their tax burden would probably convince them they don't have to produce, but live on accumulated wealth, harming those they employ, and producing no increased revenues, not to mention not influencing the desire of politicians not to spend what they don't have.
The US will hit its debt ceiling again soon. When will it be a real ceiling that isn't just raised willy nilly?