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A gender agender

A gender agender

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pradtf

VeggieChess

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Originally posted by Breaca
I don't want any special privileges, just the freedom to be judged on what I am and what I do rather than by what I was born.
that is so beautiful, breaca!
it echoes martin luther king's "to be judged by the content of his character and not the color of his skin"

it is so important that people like you do awaken not just fairplay, but fairness in how we deal with each other.

in friendship,
prad

s
Geek

Behind you...

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What no one here seems to be pointing out is the fact that the Internet provides us all with confidentiality and at the same time the freedom to ridicule and/or insult anyone we choose without any real consequences. Lots of people use Internet chatrooms and forums as portals for their prejudices, racism, sexism, and any hatred that they cannot unleash into the real world. Some do it just to enjoy the reaction they get, some do it because they trully believe whatever crap they are saying, but there is no way to put an end to it. As far as this site goes, I am what you may call a veteran of chess sites (I have been a member of about ten at this point) and can wholeheartedly tell you that you should be proud that you landed here at RHP, because I have never met a nicer bunch of people and whatever rotten eggs you meet are simply weeds in a glorious garden.

Yet, I should add, I am a white male and obviously am not what you would call a minority. I've only witnessed these ridicules and taunts and never been on either side of them. All I can say is that RHP is the least-sexist site I have ever been to and hopefully this problem isn't as bad here as it seems to be for you in real over-the-board competitions and such. May I suggest though that some of this may just be in your head and that you expect it to be a problem when you join your team in these tournaments, and in that case anything a fellow male opponent says or does you may easily conceive he is doing for a certain reason. Many people immediately jump to assumptions like that. In fact, I'm sure most people do in one case or another. Either way, I have watched a few of your games and can definitely say you are a very wonderful (and sometimes very creative) player and can only hope we never cross paths on the chess board, for my rating would never forgive me! 😉 Hope it was worth the read.


-Kev

pradtf

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Originally posted by seraphimvulture
but there is no way to put an end to it.
yes there is.
by virtue of what you have so excellently said about the quality of this site and the people on it, it is possible to put an end to the sexism on the forums and over the pixel board - or at the least, to have it dealt with appropriately. we just need to work together on it.

i agree with your comments regarding Breaca - she is an superb player and a wonderful person. we are fortunate in having her here.

in friendship,
prad

PD

Arizona, USA

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Originally posted by pradtf
paul,

are you implying you have some sort of interest in women's underwear?
i thought from our earlier exchange that what you were really interested in was quantum electrodynamics 😕

in fiendship,
prad
Mumble mumble grumble... Remember that Richard Feynman liked to hang out at topless bars.

pradtf

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Originally posted by Paul Dirac
Mumble mumble grumble... Remember that Richard Feynman liked to hang out at topless bars.
which is fine for feynman - but dirac was much more of an introvert and RHP is not a topless bar.
besides, i'm not sure why you would ask that question, even nicely as you did, considering the initiating poster clearly wrote:

other females on the sites have been harassed and questioned over their looks, their age, even the colour of their underwear

in friendship,
prad

B
The Dreamer

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Originally posted by seraphimvulture
What no one here seems to be pointing out is the fact that the Internet provides us all with confidentiality and at the same time the freedom to ridicule and/or insult anyone we choose without any real consequences.

-Kev
I am not sure that I agree with you, “that it is possible to ridicule or insult people without any real consequences” surely both the bully and the victim are further shaped by not only their own experience but also by chain reactions throughout the community. Maybe the anonymous Internet, hides us from not only the pain we may be causing to others but also from the guilt we would feel doing the same thing face to face: Because something is suddenly made easier, it doesn’t mean that it also becomes automatically more worthwhile. I think, that we don’t gain freedom with online confidentiality, but we do lose the most vital experience of all, fully sharing emotions and situations, good and bad.

I know that you are right when you say how wonderful this site is, I agree, and your words "Weeds in a glorious Garden" are very poetic too, nearly everyone on RHP is very nice, but until we change nearly everyone to everyone I would rather keep on trying.

It hadn’t even occurred to me that some of this may just be in my head, that I may be imagining that some of the comments and situations occur because of my gender. In many ways I do wish that you were correct.

Breaca

shavixmir
Lord

Sewers of Holland

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I'm going to go along the same lines as in my post on the ho-thread.

You have to make a distinction between humour and fact. True sexism is very subtle in nature.
It's not the "Men behaving badly" sexism is which is sexist and negative to women. That is so distinctly a joke (and argument, which during Marxism 199-something, had the feminists up in arms, by the way) it's not really sexist.

If you look at working couples (women living with men and both have a job) check out the statistics for who makes the bed, who cooks most often and who cleans the house. That is true sexism, deep-rooted.
Who washes the car though and who kills the spiders (not bloody me, that's for sure)? And so the chores are equal.
Are they now?

If a man asks a woman to trade topless pictures of each other. Is this degrading to women? Or, all humans being equal, is it an okay thing to do?

I have no problem, what-so-ever, with humour exaggerating the differences between men and women. If someone is harrassing you personally though, I'd contact the moderators and get him banished.

pradtf

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Originally posted by shavixmir
I have no problem, what-so-ever, with humour exaggerating the differences between men and women. If someone is harrassing you personally though, I'd contact the moderators and get him banished.
the connection you are not making is that

1) the humour isn't just exaggerating the differences between men and women - this isn't a vive la difference thing at all, it is a degradation
2) laughing with the degradation opens the doorway to harassment and even seems to justify it

in friendship,
prad

shavixmir
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Originally posted by pradtf
the connection you are not making is that

1) the humour isn't just exaggerating the differences between men and women - this isn't a vive la difference thing at all, it is a degradation
2) laughing with the degradation opens the doorway to harassment and even seems to justify it

in friendship,
prad
Again I must disagree.

Humour always has a wee bit of nastiness in it.
If they're lowering a coffin and the bottom falls out...
If someone trips over the pavement...
If someone falls off a ladder....

All things that make me laugh. All things which are probably extremely hurtful and painful to people involved.
All things which do not lead from degredation (finding a body slapping against the ground, no matter what the circumstances, will be degrading to someone) to harassment.

Humour will only lead to harassment if people are in the harassing business to start off with.

pradtf

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Originally posted by shavixmir
Again I must disagree.

Humour always has a wee bit of nastiness in it.
If they're lowering a coffin and the bottom falls out...
If someone trips over the pavement...
If someone falls off a ladder....

All things that make me laugh. All things which are probably extremely hurtful and painful to people involved.
All things which do not lead from ...[text shortened]...
Humour will only lead to harassment if people are in the harassing business to start off with.
you seem to want to work from generalizations.
we aren't talking about coffins, pavements and ladders.

we are talking about


being deliberately mistaken for the team cheerleader
enduring innuendo or just plain crudeness
harassed and questioned over their looks, their age, even the colour of their underwear


surely these aren't the differences between men and women you are suggesting are funny - especially when the woman in question plainly says they are not.

the result in many situation is exactly what Breaca wrote, that she was:

too nervous to open myself up to the comments that seem to be reserved for female posters

none of this sounds funny and it is degrading.

i do not think the wheels of humour slow down in the least when we apply some oil of courtesy and due consideration.

in friendship,
prad

A

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Originally posted by pradtf
you seem to want to work from generalizations.
we aren't talking about coffins, pavements and ladders.

we are talking about


being deliberately mistaken for the team cheerleader
enduring innuendo or just plain crudeness
harassed and questioned over their looks, their age, even the colour of their underwear


surely these aren't the diffe ...[text shortened]... n in the least when we apply some oil of courtesy and due consideration.

in friendship,
prad
I love women, so I would never...........plus I got One word for you...Judit Polgar

shavixmir
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Originally posted by pradtf
you seem to want to work from generalizations.
we aren't talking about coffins, pavements and ladders.

we are talking about


being deliberately mistaken for the team cheerleader
enduring innuendo or just plain crudeness
harassed and questioned over their looks, their age, even the colour of their underwear


surely these aren't the diffe ...[text shortened]... n in the least when we apply some oil of courtesy and due consideration.

in friendship,
prad
Is it humour which makes Breaca nervous, or harassment?

as in the third of your examples, you already state it is harassment.
As for the other two, I do see your point.
For one group of people it will obviously be amusing and for another it will be considered bullying.

But, again, is it the humour which makes it so, or the repetitivness of it?

pradtf

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Originally posted by Alpha10
I got One word for you...Judit Polgar
oh yeah? well i got 3 words for you ... skeeter, conticchio, breaca!!!

in friendship,
prad

pradtf

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Originally posted by shavixmir
Is it humour which makes Breaca nervous, or harassment?

as in the third of your examples, you already state it is harassment.
As for the other two, I do see your point.
For one group of people it will obviously be amusing and for another it will be considered bullying.

But, again, is it the humour which makes it so, or the repetitivness of it?
LOL, shav! we are repeating to each other between the 2 threads 😀
in the other thread, i said that the humour encourages the repetition.

i can't speak for breaca, but i think the humour is the harassment.

for instance, despite your superb posting abilities and your considerable contributions, some people see you as being stoned part of the time and drunk the rest of it (well, it was the image you wished to present many weeks ago). now, some people consider this to be very funny, and if you have made yourself sufficiently insensible, it really doesn't bother you and you'd probably laugh right along.

however, say no one respected you because of your di-state and made jokes like 'bets on whether it's booze or weed', everytime you made a post, and say you were actually sober for a time. these people are laughing at you and the laughter is quite harrassing. so does it matter whether it's the humour which bugs you or the harrassment?

when people made fun of me at school, they thought they were being funny, while i considered it to be harrassment, but i really couldn't go to a teacher, since i was the teacher 😀

in friendship,
prad

n

Spokane, WA

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I made a post in Cribs' pimpin' thread that was more relevant over here, so this is where I'll post.

This is where, Prad, I think it does make a difference someone's gender, because the thread was started by a woman talking about being offended as a woman.

I am a woman. And I have to say that in my experience on RHP for what, 3 years now, not once have I felt offended or degraded as a woman. Jokes and humor are jokes and humor and you have to take it at that. Now if Cribs were to, in seriousness, call ME or any woman on this site a ho, then I might take some offense.

I have never seen in any thread whether a debate, discussion, or pointless fun, a woman being told anything along the lines of "you're just a woman, what do you know?"

I would say most people who know my username on this site know by now that I am a woman. For a long time, most people assumed I was a man because face it, women are a minority here. When the truth came out, nothing changed- no one treated me any differently, except for normal gender stuff such as "I just got beat by a girl!". Nothing offensive there.

I'll probably have more to say about this later, but for now I am tired and want to stop thinking about it.

ncrosby🙂

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