19 Jan 04
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For a country that aspires to be a world leader in human rights, the death penalty has become our Achilles' heel.
As patriotic Americans, most U.S. diplomats assume that the United States is the world's leader in human rights. But increasingly, one issue divides us from our allies and puts us in bad company: the death penalty. Simply put, no other democratic country with our commitment to universal human rights resorts to the death penalty as frequently as we do. The statistics alone are startling. According to an Amnesty International Report issued in April 2003, 80 percent of all known executions worldwide in 2002 were carried out by just three countries: China, Iran and the United States. The United States has carried out more executions of juvenile offenders since 1989 than any country in the world. Only six countries have admitted to executing juveniles since 1990 -- Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and the United States. In 1999, the only country, other than the United States, to execute a juvenile offender was Iran.
Most of us are accustomed to thinking that America's human rights practices set the standard for the world. In many respects this remains true. But ........
Read the article: "American Diplomacy and the Death Penalty"
By Harold Hongju Koh and Thomas R. Pickering
Please visit:
http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Public_Affairs/421/yls_article.htm
19 Jan 04
Originally posted by LittleBearI'm not in favor of the death penalty, but I am in favor of life without parole for murder. Now, when I say "life without parole" I don't mean a life with cable television, professional weight rooms, college-level law libraries, endless appeals or silly lawsuits because prisoners don't get twinkies for dessert. Murderers and rapists and child molesters should have to swing a blade at grass and trees 8 hours a day, break rocks into little rocks. At the end of the day, they go back to their cells and read constructive material. No television, no radios, and no frills...am I being too hard?
American Diplomacy isn't a contradictio in adjecto?
Just curious... 🙄
Michael
19 Jan 04
Originally posted by chancremechanicyes
I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but I am in favor of life without parole for murder. Now, when I say "life without parole" I don't mean a life with cable television, professional weight rooms, college-level law libraries, endless appeals or silly lawsuits because prisoners don't get twinkies for dessert. Murderers and rapists and child m ...[text shortened]... s and read constructive material. No television, no radios, and no frills...am I being too hard?
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19 Jan 04
Originally posted by chancremechanicI agree that a prison sentance should have some representation of what was given by the judge. If I am fined for speeding I have to pay a fixed fine. Its not £60 at time of conviction, £25.45 for good behaviour when I come to pay it. If I get 10 years for a another crime I should have to serve 10 years - who cares if I regret it and intend not to do it (or get caught again). I regret getting a speeding ticket and I vow never to get done again.
I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but I am in favor of life without parole for murder. Now, when I say "life without parole" I don't mean a life with cable television, professional weight rooms, college-level law libraries, endless appeals or silly lawsuits because prisoners don't get twinkies for dessert. Murderers and rapists and child m ...[text shortened]... s and read constructive material. No television, no radios, and no frills...am I being too hard?
Prisons are an odd one, in a way I do not want to know what goes on in them, I would just like them to be a black whole where bad people are taken out of society until they are made good people. That in itself is a very scary thing, but what can you do, prision is about loosing civil liberties.
The big question I would say is why we put people inside. I am sure that the majority of people are not classic stereotypical rapists and murderers. These people do need to be locked up, but I am not sure prision is the answer to a lot of minor criminals, maybe more community orientated sentances are in order. I mean, there is so much litter in the UK that I am sure getting people to clean that all up for 14 days is far more constructive than a 14 day prision sentance.
Andrew
19 Jan 04
Originally posted by ivanhoei have never thought this.
Most of us are accustomed to thinking that America's human rights practices set the standard for the world.
up until recently i thought australia set the standard for the world.
-then i found out more about our history,
i hope our present won't read like that, but i am not sure. not at all sure.
19 Jan 04
Originally posted by LivingLegendOK...how would YOU (or anyone else posting) punish EVIL people who commit mayhem, murder, rape, robbery, crimes against children and heinous crimes against society regardless if it was personal?....elaborate, please...🙄
We aren't talking about personal stuff here, just evil people in general.
Olav
19 Jan 04
Originally posted by chancremechanicThe problem with capital punishment today is that there is no creativity in the punishment. The prisoner knows exactly what is coming. For example, we all know Saddam deserves death and probably will be executed after a lengthy trial. End of story. But what if he were sentenced to live out his life in the hole from which he emerged. That is creative in that 1) it is not what he expects and 2) the irony of his excessive lifestyle. I am not suggesting "gleeful creativity" in any manner.
OK...how would YOU (or anyone else posting) punish EVIL people who commit mayhem, murder, rape, robbery, crimes against children and heinous crimes against society regardless if it was personal?....elaborate, please...🙄
19 Jan 04
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Originally posted by chancremechanicOK I will elaborate.
OK, Quirine, what type of punishment would you mete out to evil people? How would you want someone who raped and murdered your grandmother to be punished? Please elaborate...
This was your posting:
"I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but I am in favor of life without parole for murder. Now, when I say "life without parole" I don't mean a life with cable television, professional weight rooms, college-level law libraries, endless appeals or silly lawsuits because prisoners don't get twinkies for dessert. Murderers and rapists and child molesters should have to swing a blade at grass and trees 8 hours a day, break rocks into little rocks. At the end of the day, they go back to their cells and read constructive material. No television, no radios, and no frills...am I being too hard?"
- first of all: "break rocks into little rocks" looks pretty useless to me. I think this is only meant to humiliate the prisoner.
Why enforce humiliating labor on someone? Just because he/she committed a 'crime'? In my opinion the enforcerer(is this good english) puts himself on the same level as the 'criminal' with this reaction: the 'criminal' becomes 'victim' and the enforcerer becomes 'criminal'.
- second: "At the end of the day, they go back to their cells and read constructive material." Who decides what is constructive reading material? I think the only one that can decide what is constructive or not is the reader. You may argue with this but even then I think it's completely useles when a 'criminal' reads something against his/her will.
"what type of punishment would you mete out to evil people?"
Here's my view: I think there are no evil people at all. There are just people doing just that what's good for them. This goes for everyone, the pope, mother Theresa, Saddam, Hitler included. I assume you donot agree with this view and sometimes I have difficulties living with it myself. For me this view is part of a more general view of how things work. Needless to say I would prefer to be in a world where people like the pope and mother Theresa prevail and no one kills my grandmother...
Hotpawn
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19 Jan 04
Originally posted by chancremechanicI have to agree with Hotpawn on the whole Evil thing, this is just a christian interpretation of human nature, of good and bad. People are not born evil per se, but they can do bad things for a variety of reasons.
OK...how would YOU (or anyone else posting) punish EVIL people who commit mayhem, murder, rape, robbery, crimes against children and heinous crimes against society regardless if it was personal?....elaborate, please...🙄
The first point, if it was personal, like say my mother, sister or girl friend, well like any normal person in such a situation I would act in a very irraitonal way - involving a club and a nine inch nail and some practice of my golf swing on the individuals head.
On the other hand, being subjective. What is a criminal - someone who breaks the laws that define our society. So what makes someone do such a thing? The common answer is that people feel disinfranchised from the system, and I can see the sense in that. If the system is doing nothing for you why should you care about the system?
If the population is better educated, there is a fair distubution of wealth thoughout society, low unemployemt, strong intergrated local communities you are going to have less crime - that is a fact, whether the social cost of achieving this is viable is another matter all together.
As the the inevitable bad apples remaining, are these people simply "bad" or "mentally unstable"? Is rape the action of a sane individual? If you want sex there is plenty around - go to Thailand or Amsterdam. Murder, well ban all guns for a start, nutters need medical help.
That leaves "crimes of passion", I have to agree with the French on this one, if you find the wife in bed with your brother can you be resonsible for that split second reaction?
No system si going to be perfect, I just think locking people in a box is the easy option for society in general, and taking the easy oprion generally never solves anything in the long run.
Andrew
20 Jan 04
Society as a whole has a much easier time with rituals of exclusion (capital punishment, imprisonment, etc). I am not naive about how evil some people are, but I think we could be a better society if there were rituals of redemption where people earned their right to join the human race. Something beyond just languishing in a prison while smoking and reading porn. There was a very good movie about 20 years ago called The Mission. I think Robert Diniro was in it, but that was a big part of it- his ritualized payment for murder.