14 May 09
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"You are under arrest get out of the car"
"No....i don't want to. Tell me all about the legal right you have to arrest me and explain for the next two hours why I should. I will then come up with a thousand other reasons to continue sitting here and not comply with your simple request because I want to make your job impossible to do"
Police officers then stand around, helpless for the next two days while a crowd gathers and laughs at how ineffectual and powerless they are, asking the person to please come out of the car.
Screw that.
14 May 09
Originally posted by CrowleyYou cant really see that, he might have been holding on to something...
Did you watch the videos? He was incapacitated.
Anyway, the cops should not have escalated to that level of violence and then nobody would have stitches and bruises...
Where is the other footage?
The cops might have been a little harsh on him, but i also think the pastor was wrong. Crying like a little baby about it:p
In his video he was also naming some of the cops that (as he says) laughed at him. Why would he do that? To publicly embarrass these cops? Is it his job to judge and punish them, or should he leave that to 'god'?
Doesnt really seem like pastor-like behaviour to me. The dude is a fraud!:p
14 May 09
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveNow this is a silly counterpoint. ANY vehicle can be put into motion by starting the engine and putting it into gear.
The vehicle was NOT moving.
If you believe that made it "necessary" for him to be hit with a taser, you have a vivid imagination IMO.
I thought the UK police were morons but it seems the yank ones take the prize for moronic-ness.
Using a taser to PUNISH someone who annoys them is a disgrace.
I'd feel safer in Moscow these days.
Going under the assumption that the law enforcement officers are dealing with a man or woman(pastor or otherwise) who is obviously refusing to cooperate, there is no way in telling what he and or she is going to do next. So the officers have to take a step that will cause use minimum force. Tasers are effectively used repeatedly as a minimum force weapon.
Look I'm not saying that cooler heads wouldn't have prevailed here, but what is not seen nor shown are the thousands and thousands of people who have tried this "peaceful" resistance only to turn violent upon the our law enforcement personnel, and ran them over, shot them down, assaulted and abused them. Seriously hurting innocents and officers alike. Any officer has reason not to take a chance in just such situations. The response to a very irritated and irrationally acting man was correct. He was even warned ahead of time that they were coming in to get him.
Why get your car damaged as well as yourself from flying glass and just open the door and give up?
Sorry IMO The cops were very much so right in this situation. The pastor should have cooperated, and he wouldn't have become the next "stupid" victim.
14 May 09
Originally posted by Sam The ShamAll they had to do was give a good reason for the arrest, and bring out those dogs. If the dogs bark
"You are under arrest get out of the car"
"No....i don't want to. Tell me all about the legal right you have to arrest me and explain for the next two hours why I should. I will then come up with a thousand other reasons to continue sitting here and not comply with your simple request because I want to make your job impossible to do"
Police offi ...[text shortened]... and powerless they are, asking the person to please come out of the car.
Screw that.
as they should if they sniff something wrong, they had cause to search the car, and if he then resisted
they would be within their rights to arrest him (tasing if necessary).
Now, that's not so hard, is it? I mean, if they can't even do that, what the hell are they doing calling
themselves police officers. I'm sure there are more complicated things you must learn to do before you
become a certified officer. Like, oh I don't know, put on your clothes in the morning. Really.
There's nothing to do but laugh at how ineffectual and clumsy they are. It's a: "I have to laugh or cry",
kind of laugh, yes, but laugh none the less.
14 May 09
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Originally posted by KJCavalierTry telling that to the hundreds of innocent victims.
Tasers are effectively used repeatedly as a minimum force weapon.
Maybe it would have been easier all round if he had co-operated [I would have] but there was absolutely no need to attack him with serious anti-violence weapons.....
I imagine he'll get a few million dollars for his trouble - good luck to him. The cops need re-training methinks.
People who have never actually been tasered themselves consider it as a minor detail........ROFL.
14 May 09
Originally posted by CrowleySorted!! That gets you on the terrorist watch list.
The guy should have complied, sure. He had evidence on tape to sue or whatever later.
But 6 cops tasering and beating up a completely innocent pastor is not the correct course of action here.
They could easily have smashed the window and forced open the door while having their weapons at the ready if he decided to go gangsta. Taking the maximum violence ...[text shortened]... t another reason in the file NEVER EVER to spend my tourism money in the United States of Abuse.
http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/counterrorism/faqs.htm
14 May 09
Originally posted by JigtieFailure to obey a police officer is a crime in the US. There are exceptions for if they are asking you to commit a crime, of course, but obviously that's not the case here. The peace is not "kept" if people only follow the orders they like from police and ignore or resist the rest. When you're being arrested they should tell you the name of the crime and your rights. It's not a bonding moment.
That's ridiculous. It is the sacred duty of any respectable citizen to resist and work against the
authorities as far as humanly possible when they stop over a certain border. They work for the
people. Not the other way around. And they work to keep the peace. Key word being: yeah, peace.
Now, this man didn't have to obey the police officer. To suggest ...[text shortened]... on the other side of the law, hunted
down and put away.
I have spoken. Make it so. 😏
One source (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_police_officers_are_employed_in_the_United_states) says there were approximately 800,000 police in the US in 2006. So yeah, if a microscopic proportion of those get on the news for tasering, that'd certainly keep me away from a country. I look forward to traveling to all those countries in which not a single police officer has ever crossed the line in the history of that nation.
Just out of curiosity, why is the man referred to as a pastor as opposed just a regular man?
14 May 09
Originally posted by pawnhandlerSo what was the name of the crime this man committed?
Failure to obey a police officer is a crime in the US. The peace is not "kept" if people only follow the orders they like from police and ignore or resist the rest. When you're being arrested they should tell you the name of the crime and your rights. It's not a bonding moment.
14 May 09
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Originally posted by Sam The ShamWhat happened before tasers were available? Chaos?
"You are under arrest get out of the car"
"No....i don't want to. Tell me all about the legal right you have to arrest me and explain for the next two hours why I should. I will then come up with a thousand other reasons to continue sitting here and not comply with your simple request because I want to make your job impossible to do"
Police offi ...[text shortened]... and powerless they are, asking the person to please come out of the car.
Screw that.
14 May 09
Originally posted by CrowleyThat's messed up. Clearly the man was not "resisting arrest", he was sitting in his car asking a reasonable question in a very calm manner and not in any way acting violently towards the police officers. The officers had absolutely no reason or excuse for using violence against him. Tasering him and beating him with clubs was clearly an excessive and totally unnecessary use of force, and all of the officers (whether they took part in the violence, or just stood by and did nothing while it happened) should be subject to the maximum penalty allowable.
What is it with American cops and their bloody tasers?
http://www.phillyd.tv/2009/05/13/police-beat-up-pastor-on-camera/
For some crazy reason our society has come to the point where police are held to a lower standard than everyone else in society. If you or I did that to the victim, we would be looking at major jail time. The police, because of their position of power in society should be held to a higher standard, and a bad police officer who abuses his power should be subject to greatly enhanced penalties. Instead we look for reasons to excuse their outrageous behavior.
14 May 09
I think most of you have got you knickers in a twist for nothing. The border patrol was accompanied by a dog that according to the agents "detected" drugs. This is another account of the story :-
Anderson tells New Times he's been doing a lot of traveling in recent years through California, Arizona and Texas, and passed through Border Patrol checkpoints "hundreds" of times without any trouble. But about a year and a half ago, he says, he made the decision he would no longer answer any questions at the checkpoints.
"I decided, 'You know what? I have the right to travel without being searched and without being questioned,'" he says.
Until this week, agents at the checkpoints never made too big of a deal over his passive resistance.
"Usually they let me go after I refused -- that happened many times. Once they held me for 20 minutes," he says.
We asked why, once he realized cops were going to break his vehicle windows, did he not roll down the windows and end the game?
"I was protecting my vehicle from an unlawful inspection," he says.
It appears he is some kind of anti-checkpoint activist.
14 May 09
Originally posted by CCNoobThe officers claim that the dog detected drugs. The victim claims it never happened. The officers refused to bring out the dog again and THERE WERE NO DRUGS. Who was lying?
...The border patrol was accompanied by a dog that according to the agents "detected" drugs....