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anti-Geldof

anti-Geldof

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V
Peasant

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What nonsense. The fact that much of Africa is corrupt is precisely why the debt has to be written off: the money was borrowed by the dictators, not the people. To demand that the people pay it back is to punish them for our callousness. What is true is that we shouldn't lend them any more: if we can afford to lend it to them, we can afford to give it to them.

I'd be quite happy to pay much higher taxes if the proceeds went to such honourable causes. That you are not says something about you as a human being.

As for Bob and Bono: good for them. The record sales of all who took part may have rocketed, but that's entirely besides the point: though impossible to measure exactly, the impact of the activism will surely be enough to save a lot of lives and misery, something you're not prepared to pay a few dollars for.

mf

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whilst this converstion as been ongoing thousands of children have died through malnutrition, these are the innocents. the guiltys are their governments their parents and people who permit it to happen, whilst i admire geldofs and bono`s attempts to end world poverty which is impressive, the problem will not end with a few concerts scattered around the globe. the fat leaders of these countrys who have feathered their own nests need to be ousted and a regime which puts it people first with education and birth control should be installed and then "yes" cancel all debt.....and only then will these countries have a chance.................at this moment we all know we are throwing good money to waste......

C

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Originally posted by helden
Actually Bono and U2 are giving away £3million, part of money they have earned by touring.
yes but what does it have to do with me. I'm barely making ends meet while they live in mansions. And has anyone checked out that link i supplied? its really good

C

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Originally posted by Villager
What nonsense. The fact that much of Africa is corrupt is precisely why the debt has to be written off: the money was borrowed by the dictators, not the people. To demand that the people pay it back is to punish them for our callousness. What is true is that we shouldn't lend them any more: if we can afford to lend it to them, we can afford to give it to t ...[text shortened]... ugh to save a lot of lives and misery, something you're not prepared to pay a few dollars for.
the money never gets to those who need it most. its pays for another rolls royce for the dictator whos starving and killing his own people

mf

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and they will be still be buying rolls royces in another 20 years time...........................................

C

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Originally posted by mr frosty
and they will be still be buying rolls royces in another 20 years time...........................................
and the children will still be starving. Will Bob and Bono put on another concert then? Will it make a difference?

V
Peasant

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You're quite right to say that the corruption which greets aid is a huge issue, and quite right to point out development as one of the keys to helping Africans take care of themselves, but you and the article you supply are wrong to suggest that this is good reason to keep the debt and halt aid.

Quite frankly, your poverty doesn't even register on the same planet as that of Africans. You'll live.

We must:
Encourage the civil institutions that oppose dictatorships;
Encourage transparent government (i.e. make aid conditional on this);
Stop selling weapons to Africa;
Cancel the debt;
Either abandon or drastically cut our agricultural subsidies so that Africans are able to sell us things (to not do so is a moral outrage);

it's a very complicated problem, and you need all of these things if they are not to cancel one another out (debt servicing cancels out aid, war with our weapons cancels out everything, et al).

I am grateful to Geldof et al for using their fame for a noble purpose. I don't care if he's being cynical or genuine (though I believe he is totally genuine): fact is, he's doing a lot to put these issues on the political agenda like nobody else.

What are you doing?

C

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We must:
Encourage the civil institutions that oppose dictatorships;
Encourage transparent government (i.e. make aid conditional on this);
Stop selling weapons to Africa;
Cancel the debt;
Either abandon or drastically cut our agricultural subsidies so that Africans are able to sell us things (to not do so is a moral outrage);
those points you make in there are good but who'll make them do it? the U.S? then people will complain that the u.s is forcing their beliefs down on the africans and that there only in it for the diamonds. maybe the u.n? it has become obsolete and is unable to make any one do anything. plus maybe you overlooked the best part of the article in which he promotes an organisation which is helping africans help themselves. A combo of you points plus this organisation would go a long way to allieviating the problem. Not some pompous rock stars in their Ivory towers.

V
Peasant

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Like I said, you have to tie aid to transparent government. There will be places where the government will choose to rule in poverty than open up and be scrutinised, but they will be few. So you don't need to make most os them do anything at all: dangle the carrot, and the donkey will follow.

Also, though it is little reported, the U.S. has to stop making its aid conditional on African markets being opened to American companies while not reciprocating. It's no good sending American manufactures to African and not letting them seel you anything they can make/grow. Trade justice must be a top priority.

The UN is quite feeble when it come to making people do things, but that's not what's needed here. It's a case of offering things to African governments if they prove that they won't pocket it. That requires administration not force, and the UN is the best option when it comes to administrating that aid.

The scheme in the article sounds great, and it should definitely get more funding. The rest of what he said was rubbish.

C

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Originally posted by Villager
Like I said, you have to tie aid to transparent government. There will be places where the government will choose to rule in poverty than open up and be scrutinised, but they will be few. So you don't need to make most os them do anything at all: dangle the carrot, and the donkey will follow.

Also, though it is little reported, the U.S. has to stop mak ...[text shortened]... sounds great, and it should definitely get more funding. The rest of what he said was rubbish.
it seems we totally agree. to bad we're not the ones making the decisions.But did we really need millionare rock stars to tell us this. it seems kinda pretentious. also I think we have a lot of domestic issues to deal with. I think if those issues were delt with quickly and thouroughly(sp.) we could spend more time aiding these countries. I don't want to seem anti- foreign aid. I would love it if the whole world enjoyed the same kinds of freedoms and lifestyles we enjoy

V
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You're quite right to point out the absurdity of moral causes being pushed by rockstars, but it begs the obvious question: who else is doing it? Answer: nobody who counts. The politicians won't act unless pushed. All these Live8 shenanagins have created a certain amount of pressure for a political answer. In that respect, much as he shouldn't need to, the rock star has done all of us voiceless and poor a great service.

C

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Originally posted by Villager
You're quite right to point out the absurdity of moral causes being pushed by rockstars, but it begs the obvious question: who else is doing it? Answer: nobody who counts. The politicians won't act unless pushed. All these Live8 shenanag ...[text shortened]... rock star has done all of us voiceless and poor a great service.
when put that way, i'll concede the point. Unfortunately I'm kinda a cynical person, and all those people who went to the concerts mabey a few will pressure their local representative, to make this a prioity. Much like those school rallies or special presnter you never listen to most just went home thinking what a great show they saw for free.

It should be up to us to get OURSELVES involed in politics and work the system from the inside. and try not to lose our idealism. plus by all means preach what we have come up with here to anyone who'll listen. I know I will.

Wajoma
Die Cheeseburger

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Originally posted by Villager
...I'd be quite happy to pay much higher taxes if the proceeds went to such honourable causes. That you are not says something about you as a human being....
Mighty damn generous there Villager, of course the surest way to make this happen is to donate directly to the charity of your choice. I have other priorities for the money I earn, it is not for you to set my values.

m
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While my heart bleeds for the plight of underdeveloped countries I also believe that charity begins at home.

There are numerous families right here where I live who are homeless. Children who are living day by day. Families who have no food in their cupboards. And this is in a wealthy, developed county. If our government can't even afford to aid it's own citizens then what can it do for another countries misfortunes?

I have to wonder where all these millions of dollars in aid are really going. Three million dollers buys ALOT of groceries. I can feed a household of four on $400/month.

There is aid coming from many nations, aid coming from many orginizations, yet nothing is changing. People are still starving to death. Where is the money going? Not to those who need it that's all I know.

When's the last time anyone made a handfull of sandwiches and offered them out to those less fortunate? To the guy sleeping in an alley way, to the woman panhandling on the street. I'm not classified as fortunate myself but whatever little extra I have is gladly offered to help anyone with less.

These people should be handing out sandwiches instead of putting on a superficial concert to to gain "awareness" to a problem we are already "aware" of. Feed the bloody people! Why not have a massive outdoor BBQ in the process?

I don't see any starving children feeling any fuller by watching big fat rich people singing on a full stomach. We, as the majority, have the power to change it yet choose not to. No amount of benifit concerts will change the plight of lesser nations.

Thinking before we consume, making our voices heard and having a true desire to enact true solutions is only a start to answering the problem.

Openeing our pocket books seems to be the equivelent of sweeping the dirt onder the carpet. Throwing money at it won't make the problem dissappear. As we have already tried this method to no avail.

We have symapthy but I feel we don't have empathy. Try going a couple days with no food and drink your water from a murky puddle. Try watching your children become too weak to cry out in pain.

We can have genuine desire to help but fail to do so because of our lack of understanding. We get hungry we spend money, problem solved. This is not always the solution to every situation, such as people living in unbearable poverty.

I don't have the answers, only unanswered questions. It is a tragic reflection of humanity in the 21st century to say the least. I guess misguided effort are better than no efforts at all.

buffalobill
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Originally posted by Villager
You're quite right to say that the corruption which greets aid is a huge issue, and quite right to point out development as one of the keys to helping Africans take care of themselves, but you and the article you supply are wrong to suggest that this is good reason to keep the debt and halt aid.

Quite frankly, your poverty doesn't even register on the ...[text shortened]... oing a lot to put these issues on the political agenda like nobody else.

What are you doing?
We live in a sick and cynical world. The fact that the US is by far the biggest arms dealer in the world makes aid an interesting issue. Lend them tax payers' money so they can buy arms. The wheels grease other wheels and the rich get richer, while the poor get poorer.

Any and all aid packages should be linked to stricter spending criteria, but that is not going to happen. Western politics and industry march hand in hand. It's all about profit.

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