06 Sep 05
Originally posted by no1marauderYes. Actually.
There is sooooooooooooo much incorrect info here, I hardly know where to start.
1) Rav showed he's playing in ONE correspondence tournament run by the Italian Chess Federation. I wonder what his rating is now, too, but I can't find one. He was rated 1932 in 1993 by the ICCF. That's all we know and that, my friend, DOES NOT indicate Grandmaste ...[text shortened]... d come up with perfect, Junior-like moves 100% of the time is absurd.
Anything else??
I'd like to refer you to Verses 6.13 and 6.14 from the gospel of St. Russ:
It's not allowed to: "Stalk" or otherwise harass another; or
Collect or store personal data about other users.
Obviously not being a complete TOSSER such as yourself, I'm not sure in how to interpret these verses. But seeing the fundamentalist nature of the religion of TOS, I presume we can just take them quite literally.
You are harassing people.
You are collecting personal data on people.
Just like Bush is a hypocrite Christian fundamentalist, it seems, no1, that you are a hypocrite TOSSER.
Dear oh dear oh dear...
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by Vivaldihow about you leave the last three words away and just shut up?
I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY TO A PINEAPPLE
Anyway, back on topic. I'm not sure which side to take here, but I do kinda share freddie's point. IM played in a lot of grouped tournaments. I played him once and he crushed me in ten moves (which is no big achievement), but in grouped tournaments there are plenty of people in my rating band and slightly above. Also, I've played 1500-people and we were equal in middlegame, and I lost because... well, mediocre chess playing abilities I guess. But if I (I take about 45 seconds to think about a move... but now is not the time to reprimand me for that...) can match a 1500-player on the first 15 or so moves, I don't find it hard to imagine that an experienced player will be able to beat someone of that level without thinking of moves very long.
I don't know what the percentage of people he beat around and under this rating is, but I'm sure it would reduce the game load by quite a bit.
- Joined
- 21 Aug 03
- Moves
- 617748
06 Sep 05
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauder100% - but with what, and what settings, and what hardware?
You desire more than a statement that he matches up almost 100% to a commercially available engine??
If I try to duplicate it, will I succeed?
and the word "almost" that's quite a lot of leeway.
Howevre, In which case, the Game mods should be quite happy to publish this information. Unless i've missed it, they have not.
edit: i can't type any more accurately than I play chess.
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by pineapple42I'm still curious why 2Bit felt the need to doctor his own match up percentages in the games he analysed against IM from 90% (my analysis) or 96% (Arrakis' analysis) down to the 70s? While leaving IM's matchup percentage more or less the same (high 90s)?
I expect that your match-up figures are far higher than my own (proving precisely nothing) -
It is perfectly possible for someone crap like myself to get quite suprising results with sufficient patience and careful use of reference material - which would no doubt generate a higher engine match.
Also, if I analysed one of your games against a vastly inferior opponent, you would probably match up in the high 80s, Pineapple. Just a fact that inferior opponents leave easily spotted (by both man and machine) moves. I was shocked to see that the first game I analysed when I got Fritz showed me matchin up 85%, but my opponent was about 300 points below me.
D
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by pineapple42I would prefer if they did too, but just from my own analyses I'm completely satisfied he used an engine in his games against me. Grayeyesofsorrow told anybody who would listen last December that IM was running Junior in his games; that's why GEOS was excluded from the Game Mods. If he had been allowed on, IM wouldn't have gotten an opportunity to cheat in hundreds of games!
100% - but with what, and what settings, and what hardware?
If I try to duplicate it, will I succeed?
In which case, the Game mods should be quite happy to publish this information. Unless i've missed it, they have not.
The answer to your question is: Yes. Go out and buy a Junior and run some of IM's games through it. I betcha you'll consistently get results in the 90%+ range of matchups. I ran his games using Fritz8 which is a diferent engine (but strong engines are more similiar to each other than players are to players or to engines) and he matched up 93% to Fritz in our games and the mid 80% in other games. These matchup rates are impossible in game after game without engine use.
06 Sep 05
2 edits
Originally posted by RagnorakWhy keep lying? Arrakis' analysis showed no such thing and your's was obviously "cooked" and you refused to put the settings the same as I did. You also refused to show the results of the other game's analysis. You were obviously trying to use only the data that you believed supported your theory that anybody could match up at a high rate with an engine all the time (which is BS). Arrakis' conclusion was that Black (IM) WAS OBVIOUSLY USING AN ENGINE. You're pathetic.
I'm still curious why 2Bit felt the need to doctor his own match up percentages in the games he analysed against IM from 90% (my analysis) or 96% (Arrakis' analysis) down to the 70s? While leaving IM's matchup percentage more or less the same (high 90s)?
Also, if I analysed one of your games against a vastly inferior opponent, you would probably matc ...[text shortened]... I got Fritz showed me matchin up 85%, but my opponent was about 300 points below me.
D
EDIT: Here's the thread: http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=27838&page=12
Surprised you brought it up after you made such a bloody fool of yourself.
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by no1marauderWell, well done for getting started, pity it's all verbal garbage though.
There is sooooooooooooo much incorrect info here, I hardly know where to start.
1) Rav showed he's playing in ONE correspondence tournament run by the Italian Chess Federation. I wonder what his rating is now, too, but I can't find one. He was rated 1932 in 1993 by the ICCF. That's all we know and that, my friend, DOES NOT indicate Grandmaste ...[text shortened]... d come up with perfect, Junior-like moves 100% of the time is absurd.
Anything else??
1) He is 42 now. What is the likelyhood of him becoming a better players in 13 years of play? I never stated anything about him being a GM strength player, I was merely saying that he could be a very good player, good enough to easily beat most players.
2) I admit that maybe a minute or two was a bit far fetched but I'm sure that if you wern't pedantic as well as contumelious you would know what I meant. My point was that he played those players and beat them, yes, but, because he didn't need to spend that much time beating lower rated players he had more time to concentrate on those games with top 20 players. He may well have had a few chess boards set up around his site with his most important games set up around the house. IM was not a 1900 CC player, was he? All I am saying is that against the competition that HE considered "stiff" he could take a lot more time than OTB players. Of course none of us know what he considered "stiff competition". I'm sure that you can tear me apart for being a 1100 player saying this but if someone like IM were to make a grave error against most players with a rating like his, he would almost certainly be able to retrieve the situation no? or at least get a draw, as he did on several occasions.
3) Just like his opponants have time to study their moves, so does he, and I'm sure that if he realised that he was playing stiffer competition than he thought he would slow down and consider his moves more carefully.
4) He didn't come up with 100% Junior-like chess moves, I beleive you stated it was 93% approx. And this brings me on to a question I would like to ask you. Why do his moves not match up 100% to Junior if he was cheating? Is it not possible for someone with potentially 10 days to think of a move could see the same move as Junior? Don't rant at me for asking this, I honestly don't know and am just asking because I'm curious.
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by Freddie2004I give up. He's God and he got railroaded. Put a little crucifix with "IM31" around yer neck.
Well, well done for getting started, pity it's all verbal garbage though.
1) He is 42 now. What is the likelyhood of him becoming a better players in 13 years of play? I never stated anything about him being a GM strength player, I was merely saying that he could be a very good player, good enough to easily beat most players.
2) I admit that may ...[text shortened]... n't rant at me for asking this, I honestly don't know and am just asking because I'm curious.
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by no1marauderplease just answer the question. If you feel you can't respond to my points, whether it be because they are too stupid or because you are too stupid, or because you know you are beaten, I don't know. But could you at least answer my question about matching up 100% and why IM didn't if he was using an engine?
I give up. He's God and he got railroaded. Put a little crucifix with "IM31" around yer neck.
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by Freddie20041) You've already said that won't accept any evidence I or the Game Mods can give you as "conclusive". Why should I keep wasting my time with you? You are being unreasonable.
please just answer the question. If you feel you can't respond to my points, whether it be because they are too stupid or because you are too stupid, or because you know you are beaten, I don't know. But could you at least answer my question about matching up 100% and why IM didn't if he was using an engine?
2) I answered this question in the CC forum from Coconut. You already read it, so asking it again is disingenous. But here it is:
Nobody matches up 100%; it would be tooooooo obvious. Plus he might be using a different engine or different time settings or a stronger computer, etc.
I predicted that if somebody ran IM's games with a stronger computer, his matches would be higher. That's exactly what happened.
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by no1marauderanyways, I just thought I'd repost this:
1) You've already said that won't accept any evidence I or the Game Mods can give you as "conclusive". Why should I keep wasting my time with you? You are being unreasonable.
2) I answered this question in the CC forum from Coconut. You already read it, so asking it again is disingenous. But here it is:
Nobody matches up 100%; i ...[text shortened]... M's games with a stronger computer, his matches would be higher. That's exactly what happened.
Yes. Actually.
I'd like to refer you to Verses 6.13 and 6.14 from the gospel of St. Russ:
It's not allowed to: "Stalk" or otherwise harass another; or
Collect or store personal data about other users.
Obviously not being a complete TOSSER such as yourself, I'm not sure in how to interpret these verses. But seeing the fundamentalist nature of the religion of TOS, I presume we can just take them quite literally.
You are harassing people.
You are collecting personal data on people.
Just like Bush is a hypocrite Christian fundamentalist, it seems, no1, that you are a hypocrite TOSSER.
Dear oh dear oh dear...
Just because it's funny. And true
06 Sep 05
Originally posted by no1marauderYes, indeed that was his conclusion, but look at his analysis. He analysed both colours and you ended up not matching up on 2 moves...32 and 33. 13 db moves, and that leaves u matching up 96%.
Why keep lying? Arrakis' analysis showed no such thing and your's was obviously "cooked" and you refused to put the settings at the same I did. Arrakis' conclusion was that Black (IM) WAS OBVIOUSLY USING AN ENGINE. You're pathetic.
EDIT: Here's the thread: http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=27838&page=12
Surprised you brought it up after you made such a bloody fool of yourself.
I'm sure Arrakis won't mind me pasting our pm conversation as it states nothing that he didn't state in the thread (less clearly) ...
ArrakisPlease reread my post. ALL MOVES (white and black) matched Fritz's 1st choice unless otherwise noted!
:-)
me>Hey Arrakis,
I'm curious why you didn't analyse white's moves. I found a 96% match up for black, and a 90% matchup for white. It seems unfair for you to just analyse black's moves when white could also be using an engine.
D
And this is his analysis...
ALL MOVES ARE MATCHED AS BEST MOVE BY FRITZ UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Qc7 8. Qf3
b5 9. f5 b4 10. Ncb5 axb5 11. Bxb5+ Bd7 12. fxe6 Bxb5 13. Nxb5 Qc5 14. Bxf6
fxe6 15. Nd4 gxf6 16. Nxe6 Qc4 17. Qxf6 Nd7 18. Nc7+ Qxc7 19. Qxh8 Qc5 20. Qxh7
Qe3+ 21. Kf1 O-O-O 22. Qh3 Qc5 {2nd choice} 23. Qd3 {2nd choice} Bg7 24. Ke2
Ne5 25. Qb3 {2nd choice} Nc4 26. Raf1 {2nd choice} Re8 27. Qh3+ Kb8 {2nd choice
} 28. Rf4 Bh6 29. Rhf1 Bxf4 30. Rxf4 Nxb2 31. Qb3 Nc4 32. Qd3 {No match} d5 33.
Rf5 {No match} Qg1 34. Qg3+ Kc8 35. Rxd5 Rxe4+ 36. Kd3 Re3+ 37. Kxc4 Rxg3 38.
hxg3 Qb1 39. Rd2 Qb2 40. Kb5 Kc7 41. g4 Qc3 42. Rd1 {2nd match} Qxc2 {2nd match
} 43. Rd4
So now, who cooked their analysis, who's pathetic and who looks a bloody fool?
BTW: You have an interesting method of debating, you make untrue statements as though they are fact, hoping (probably correctly) that dopes will just take your word for it, without checking the facts. Kudos to you for the fact that you seem to have some gullible, easily led fans. Ever thought of running for president?
D