Originally posted by donallyneThe plastic bags you get from Somerfield claim to be biodegradable. It says they break down to mostly water and air in a few weeks.
I don't think you can invent a "better" plastic bag. The scientific nature of plastic is that it isn't biodegrable and will sit around forever.
Of course plastic bags don't sit around forever!
Just keep using them and you'll notice they start to get holes and then fall apart.
Seriously. What's with all this drive to save the enviroment? Who on earth cares? The sooner we're extinct, the sooner 99% of the other species on this earth are gonna be smiling all the way to the man-made mountains of garbage!
We're nothing but a virus with shoes on!
EDIT: Don't let me cheer you up though.
Originally posted by pradtfPoint is - average Western consumer would get through 30 grams of plastic bags a week, but 30 litres of petrol. The car has a thousand times more environmental impact than a few bags. Even sitting there on your computer - what produces that electricity?
don't own an SUV and i hardly drive anywhere.
why would you think that we would make a special trip just to give the plastic bags to the recycler?
why would you as me this question when i've already told you that we use cloth bags?
is there any sort of point you are trying to make here?
ah! so many questions! so little time!
in friendship,
prad
I worked for a plastics recyler for a while. Post consumer recyling was a joke - people even put disposable nappies in the bins. Many shopping bags contained paper, rubbish and dirt. PVC plastic was thrown in too - at the temperature used to melt polyethylene, it decomposes to toxic gases, blowing machinery. The end product was contaminated and of little value - where it was used in rubbish bags, the thickness was often twice that of normal because of poor quality. Most post consumer recyling is a sham - it is quietly dumped. And some bright person wants to create biodegradable plastics - how do you keep that out if recyciling streams?
Originally posted by steerpikei think the idea is that you take the plastic bags to the recycler when you drive to the supermarket where they have recycling bins.
Point is - average Western consumer would get through 30 grams of plastic bags a week, but 30 litres of petrol. The car has a thousand times more environmental impact than a few bags. Even sitting there on your computer - what produces that electricity?
better, don't use them to begin with or minimize their usage.
cars and computers really don't have anything to do with the argument unless you can show somehow that using a car or using a computer has any impact on using plastic bags or visa versa.
the intent of timebombted's post is to reduce, reuse and recycling. it is a good idea.
your counter argument of there are far worse things we do, really doesn't detract from his point.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by garethnGreat idea. But you can't recycle plastics if you are putting biodegradable platic in the mix. The bags won't break down into water and air either - try water and carbon dioxide, the greehouse gas. So the worst things about plastic bags - waste of resources - is not addressed.
The plastic bags you get from Somerfield claim to be biodegradable. It says they break down to mostly water and air in a few weeks.
Originally posted by pradtfA feel good for the supermarket - but what happens to the bags? I was involved in this - the recylers told the supermarket there was no value as the bins were too contaminated to process. Were the supermarkets honest with their customers? No way, the bags were baled, moved around between a few yards and then landfilled. Perhaps you could ask your local supermarket which recyler they use?
i think the idea is that you take the plastic bags to the recycler when you drive to the supermarket where they have recycling bins.
better, don't use them to begin with or minimize their usage.
cars and computers really don't have anything to do with the argument unless you can show somehow that using a car or using a computer has any impact on using ...[text shortened]... here are far worse things we do, really doesn't detract from his point.
in friendship,
prad
If your only concern is with whales scarfing down plastic bags, why not push for better landfillls and prosecuting the lazy slobs who throw their Macdonalds wrappers on the street? If your concern is to reduce - use of oil, greenhouse gases - making fewer trips to the supermarket will save much more than a cloth shopping bag.
Originally posted by steerpikei think you are allowing your personal experience taint other realities just as you did in our sheep discussions - which aren't over yet, btw.
A feel good for the supermarket - but what happens to the bags? I was involved in this - the recylers told the supermarket there was no value as the bins were too contaminated to process. Were the supermarkets honest with their customer ...[text shortened]... supermarket will save much more than a cloth shopping bag.
admittedly, i have been taking advantage of a rather long timebank there, so i apologize.
i really don't see what you are whaling about here. recycling is a good idea (usually), but certainly not the better idea, imho. personally i think reducing makes more sense - i think you do as well from what you have written.
timebombted's idea of banning the PB is just a limit reducing can be taken to.
in friendship,
prda
I agree with all the posters who have highlighted that there are far more damaging environmental issues than the PB. However, this was not the point of the post which has clearly been missed.
To simplify:
To solve the issue of PB's polluting the environment is simple, ban shops from giving them to customers. There is a more than adequate alternative for people to use, the PB is not a necessity.
So why dont governments rid the world of them for ever?
I personally don't have a problem with biodegradable paper sacks in the first place, I questioned someone once why they changed and the answer was money. This was around the time my industry raised there prices so high, that our customers started looking for alternative methods of delivering their product. Anyone remember the big paper shortage, I believe it was in the 1980's.
They are starting to offering paper again now where I live, you can choose either plastic or paper bags. The newest logo coming out, although, most may not have seen it is the: Recycle, Reuse, Reclaim and Renew. The reclaim is the key here, how to get them back. Although I'm speaking from the container board sector of corrugated containers. Contamination is also not an issue, or not as big of one because of the process in which we breakdown the fiber and byproducts.
Our millions of acres of forest holdings are all invaluable. They are an important, integral part of America's
landscape (do you see pines trees in Georgia) and an essential, renewable fiber source.
The recycling movement has recently shifted, it is now a 'What to do with society’s trash' is an age-old concern that today is giving way to the realization that waste often has an economic value. Technological advances have been the foundation of this growing success.
Turning waste into opportunity is not new to our industry. My company's practice of reusing process wastes in the manufacture of its products is as old as its 107-year history. From using its wood waste for boxes in the 1920s and particleboard in the 1970s to using recovered by-product waste from other industries for synthetic gypsum
in some of its wallboard products today. We continuously look for opportunities that protect the environment and also bring economic reward. And sometimes thats not good for bottom line profits as well. For us, recycling paper is cheaper than producing virgin paper, which is a scarce commodity in my corporation. But I hope I didn't get too off topic here, but would feel is maybe of some useful information to know and a stance the paper industry is fighting for.