15 Jan 04
Originally posted by Poison GodmachineThis system has not been in place forever, it's only been in place since free agency. Baseball is a business and your points are valid. But if Steinbreener were not making money hand over foot he would not be taking risks. Most of the cities you mention are considered large market. My concern is for the small market teams. Teams that sink many dollars into a young player in development and just as he comes into his prime can no longer afford him, because in free agency the Steinbrenners of baseball will pay him almost as much as the whole small market team!
[bgood look at what you're hating. For the system that's been in place forever in baseball, the Yankees dominate now because they do it correctly. They take the risks when everyone else pulls back. They have an owner whose priority has always been winning first, profit second, as opposed to every other team out there. They've earned everything they ...[text shortened]... your team can't keep up, look to your own franchise, to your own ownership group, and see why.
I don't hate the Yankees, as a baseball team they have very few peers. I don't like the system that allows them to assemble that team. The NFL has parity and has replaced baseball as America's sport. Baseball should wake up before it's too late
Regards,
Charlie
15 Jan 04
Originally posted by Poison GodmachineFirst off, please don't hate us cuz we hate the Yankee's! It is all we have! The Yankees are "America's Team". They are the team you go to if you want to win. I prefer the UnderDog... no one is better at coming in second than the Red Sox!
You know, I've heard a lot of talk about how the Yankees are a just a group of all-stars and are bad for the sport because of Steinbrenner's spending practices, and I think this is what you and chaswray are driving at here. I'm not really a big fan of baseball, but I have sort of a different perspective on this. Let me lay it out for you and you ...[text shortened]... 's stop throwing stones at the Yankees, and be honest with ourselves about what's going on.
Like I said, when I talk about the Yankees I use the term "hate" lightly. I think I also said Yankees are a great team someplace... and it sure would be nice to beat them for about 75 years in a row.
I know the Sox could pay more for players, but as you may have read in my post the Sox have a problem with Ramirez being paid top dollar but not wanting to play field or run. These are things that need to change. Make top dollar, but you are not going to get as much if you slack.
Yankees can't buy the world series.... it has been proven somewhat often of late... but they do drive some prices up if all the good players go to the Yankees.. that's a fact. My Sox are TOP DOLLAR too... but why they don't try and match Yankees is a mystery to me.
I am a fan of baseball and Red Sox... as well as a couple other teams. I don't go out of my way to bash fans of other teams, or bash the Yankees... They are like an enemy you love to loath!
Red Sox and Yankees have fans in every state, we travel around and fill stadiums that were empty the last 12 games in a row. We as a couple of the bigger teams need to keep the smaller teams in the running.
I guess what I am saying is, my biggest worry is teams going broke with no fans in their city.
P-
15 Jan 04
2 edits
Originally posted by chaswrayI just want to make clear that I'm not a Yankees fan, but was simply throwing out a different perspective in my last post. I understand that you and Phlabibit aren't Yankee haters either, as you both explicitly stated in your posts.
This system has not been in place forever, it's only been in place since free agency.
I meant "forever" in a figurative sense, not the literal history of baseball. The current system has been in place long enough for someone to figure out how to exploit it successfully. I'm simply pointing out that this all the Yankees have done and it isn't necessarily a bad thing.
But if Steinbreener were not making money hand over foot he would not be taking risks.
This is the point of my whole post. Steinbrenner spent the money AT THE OUTSET in order to make the money that has put the Yankees in their current position.
My concern is for the small market teams. Teams that sink many dollars into a young player in development and just as he comes into his prime can no longer afford him, because in free agency the Steinbrenners of baseball will pay him almost as much as the whole small market team!
This is a valid point, but you're really talking about something else here, that being contraction of the league in order to level the proverbial playing field. Steinbrenner isn't the only guy who has lured other players away with money (Alex Rodriguez going to Texas, Guerrero going to Anaheim, etc.), but he's the one most often cited as the problem.
And as far as your last comment about disliking the system that allows the Yankees to do this, I wholeheartedly agree, that was the last two sentences or so of my post.
I know you're a big fan of baseball, chas, as we've discussed over our games. As I said earlier, I'm just offering a viewpoint that differs from the usual criticism that we all have heard ad nauseum about the Yankees.
15 Jan 04
2 edits
Originally posted by PhlabibitHating the Yankees is fun. I do it too. 😀
First off, please don't hate us cuz we hate the Yankee's! It is all we have! I am a fan of baseball and Red Sox... as well as a couple other teams. I don't go out of my way to bash fans of other teams, or bash the Yankees... They are like an enemy you love to loath!
My Sox are TOP DOLLAR too... but why they don't try and match Yankees is a mystery to me.
No it's not. Despite the fact that they ultimately lose, the Red Sox (like the Mariner's, the A's, or the Braves) are still making a healthy profit. Apart from having the title for the year, there's really no financial reason to change anything. There are only competitive reasons.
EDIT: I just want to add that I agree with what chas said about the NFL. Baseball needs to take a page from the NFL's book of ownership. The NFL has been the most exciting league to watch lately because every year, you never know who's going to take home the championship. Balance is what I want in a sport, not a team winning 4 out of 5 years in a row such as the Bulls and the Yankees of the 90s.
15 Jan 04
Yup, PGM... Sox should spend a tad more to get what they want, (or stop the Yankees from getting what they want).
I think Theo has been doing a bit more of that since he got the team a couple years back.
This year's moves were great for us to watch here. On the radio we were talking Red Sox when the Pats were 7 and 2! Imagine that. NFL is way more popular, but here in Red Sox Nation we were talking hardball. Go figure.
I liked your edit too, that is all that is really needed... "take a page from NFL" and think about MLB spendings. Hope to see some changes for the better soon in MLB.
P-
15 Jan 04
3 edits
Originally posted by Poison GodmachineYou are mistaken. Steinbrenner has nothing to do with the Yankees' success. The best that can be said about Steinbrenner is that he has quit becoming a detriment to the organization. The facts will plainly show that the Yankees went to the World Series 29 times before Steinbrenner bought the team in 1973. The second most successful American League franchise in that regard is the Athletics (Philadelphia, Oakland) with 14 World Series appearances in their entire 103 year history. My Tigers are tied for third with 9. Clearly, something besides the "guiding hand" of Steinbrenner is at work here.
You know, I've heard a lot of talk about how the Yankees are a just a group of all-stars and are bad for the sport because of Steinbrenner's spending practices, and I think this is what you and chaswray are driving at here. I'm ...[text shortened]... e Yankees, and be honest with ourselves about what's going on.
A simple statistical analysis will prove my point. The Yankees went to 29 of the 69 World Series that were played before Steinbrenner bought the team. In other words, they went to the Series 42% of the time. There have been 30 World Series played since Steinbrenner bought the team. The Yankees have gone to 10 of them (for a grand total of 39 times). This is 33% of the time. The evidence will plainly show that the Yankees go to the World Series 9% LESS often since the fateful day that Steinbrenner bought the team and placed them under his heavy yoke.
Steinbrenner was at the helm when they put all those mediocre teams on the field in the 80s. Those teams were the fruits of Steinbrenner's interference with the running of the organization. His loose spending brought some early success in the late 70s, but by the 80s he had virtually ruined the organization. He overspent lavishly for under-performing free agents, while trading away the teams best prospects. His personal conduct was a disgrace. His revolving door managerial changes had made him a virtual laughingstock. Steinbrenner was clearly a detriment to the team, which had gone 15 years between World Series appearances at one point.
With age Steinbrenner has mellowed a bit. He has left more of the actual baseball decisions up to people who actually know what they're doing. Even though he still outspends anyone else, he does so a little more wisely. He has quit trading away prospects at the drop of a hat. He has created a more stable environment with the same manager for more than one year. In other words, he has quit being a detriment and let the Yankees get back to their winning tradition.