Originally posted by Sam The ShamAre you serious?
Tell us how you would've handled it marauder.
First, it's discretionary whether to arrest if the traffic violator doesn't sign the citation. So, I would have gave her the citation and left. Incident over.
Second, if I had made the misjudgment to escalate the incident beyond what was necessary, I wouldn't have bumped/shoved and screamed profanity at a old woman even if I thought she was acting inappropriately.
Third, even if I had performed those misjudgments, I would have let her sign the stupid citation even if I technically had the authority to continue with the arrest. What's the BFD? It's a minor speeding ticket, not mass murder.
Fourth, under no circumstances does a large man need to use a taser on a small, elderly woman. They were no where near traffic.If he really felt the need to handcuff her, are you saying he lacked the physical ability to do so? If so, he shouldn't monitor kindergartners let alone be on highway patrol.
Anyone who thinks this is "professional" behavior by a police officer is a complete idiot. He lost his temper and used completely unnecessary force to effectuate an unnecessary arrest. This clown should be fired.
Originally posted by no1marauderOK point by point:
Are you serious?
First, it's discretionary whether to arrest if the traffic violator doesn't sign the citation. So, I would have gave her the citation and left. Incident over.
Second, if I had made the misjudgment to escalate the incident beyond what was necessary, I wouldn't have bumped/shoved and screamed profanity at a old wo ...[text shortened]... etely unnecessary force to effectuate an unnecessary arrest. This clown should be fired.
First, whether it's discretionary or not depends on the state. Every place I've lived if you tell an officer you won't sign a ticket, you get arrested.
Second, the old woman escalated the incident by becoming belligerent, the officer did not scream profanity at her, she screamed profanity at him.
Third. I sort of agree with you, even if she was a jerk by yelling "give me the %$#&ing ticket and I'll sign".
Fourth. They were nowhere near traffic? Did you look at the video? Cars are speeding by just a few feet behind the officer while the old lady bumps up to him getting fiesty..
Originally posted by Sam The ShamYou might get arrested, but it's still "discretionary" meaning it's up to the officer. You asked how I would have handled it; being a rational person rather than a punk like this "officer", I would have handled it by without escalating it to an arrest.
OK point by point:
First, whether it's discretionary or not depends on the state. Every place I've lived if you tell an officer you won't sign a ticket, you get arrested.
Second, the old woman escalated the incident by becoming belligerent, the officer did not scream profanity at her, she screamed profanity at him.
Third. I sort of agree with by just a few feet behind the officer while the old lady bumps up to him getting fiesty..
The officer escalated the incident by bumping/shoving her THAN she yelled profanity to which he responded by screaming profanity. That's unprofessional.
Being a jerk doesn't mean you get tasered; running an electrical shock through an elderly woman is risking killing her over a speeding ticket. That's completely unnecessary force.
"A few feet" is an exaggeration. They were on the side of the road and a big, bad cop should be able to handcuff an old woman (if he really feels that is necessary) without too much trouble.
EDIT: I stand corrected; after he bumped/shoved her he screamed "Get over here now!" - there wasn't any profanity like I first thought. Still, though she wasn't being terribly nice, she didn't really start being uncooperative until after the bump/shove which she immediately reacted to with "You're gonna shove me?'
I didn't see any cars in the lane next to the stopped police car.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25619277-5006003,00.html
A 72-YEAR-OLD great-grandmother chose the wrong policeman when she dared Deputy Constable Chris Bieze to Taser her.
Kathryn Winkfein made headlines last month after she was stopped by Const Bieze for speeding.
Caught doing nearly 100km/h in a 70km/h zone in Travis County, Texas, Ms Winkfein refused to accept the ticket.
The official police word was Ms Winkfein “mouthed off, then was physically non-compliant”.
Const Bieze's response was to send 50,000 volts through her body. Twice.
Ms Winkfein told her story to media outlets, claiming she did nothing to provoke the Taser “attack”.
But video footage released overnight from Const Bieze's car shows Winkfein swearing and shouting at the officer, then daring him to Taser her.
“You gonna shove me?” Ms Winkfein tells Const Bieze in the video. “You gonna shove a 72-year-old woman?”
“Step back or I’m going to Taser you,” she is told.
“Go ahead, Taser me,” she replies.
After five more warnings, the “combative” Ms Winkfein was then Tasered.
In the video, she can be seen screaming on the ground after being zapped by the 50,000-volt charge.
Const Bieze fires another jolt of electricity into her body when she tries to get up.
Precinct 3 Sergeant Major Gary Griffin told UK tabloid The Sun: "She was using language I wouldn't expect any woman to use, let alone a 72-year-old woman."
“There’s nobody that wanted this to happen any worse, than Deputy Chris Bieze."
Ms Winkfein did not require an ambulance and is yet to respond to the video footage.
The $64,000 question. Why has the granny refused to respond to the video footage? She lied. She was combative, she was ignoring oncoming traffic that endangered her and the policeman.
Originally posted by CCNoob"Combative"? You think the "officer" had a reason to fear "combat" with this elderly woman?
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25619277-5006003,00.html
[/i]A 72-YEAR-OLD great-grandmother chose the wrong policeman when she dared Deputy Constable Chris Bieze to Taser her.
Kathryn Winkfein made headlines last month after she was stopped by Const Bieze for speeding.
Caught doing nearly 100km/h in a 70km/h zone in Travis County, he was combative, she was ignoring oncoming traffic that endangered her and the policeman.
This isn't "double dare"; unless the officer cannot effectuate the arrest (which was unnecessary anyway) without using the taser, he's not supposed to use it.
EDIT: "Put your hands behind your back or you're going to get tasered again" - said by Constable Bieze to Kathryn Winkfein while she was on the ground.
Originally posted by Sam The ShamI would have answered you here but I see that #1, has done a good job. I agree with him totally. The officer did not act in a professional manner. Abuse of a woman is not tolerated in Texas, by man or by cop. It was an over reaction on both of their parts but he is the stronger sex and he is a wuss if he couldn't have handled her without the knocking her to the ground. I take it you couldn't have handled her in a kinder more gentlemanly manner? <cash shakes head>
What should the officer have done?
You do know it's not often #1 and I agree on an issue. But there are ways to handle this action and this wasn't the right way. Hollywood must have you confused with reality. This is exactly the kind of actions that cause cops to get killed. This guy, acted rogue and gives good cops a bad name. Wuss lover.
Amnesty International has said that industry claims that Taser stun guns are safe and non-lethal do not stand up to scrutiny. The organization called on governments to limit their deployment to life-threatening situations or to suspend their use.
The call came as the organization released one of the most detailed reports to date on the safety of the stun gun. The report "USA: Less than lethal?" is being published as the number of people who died after being struck by Tasers in the USA reached 334 between 2001 and August 2008.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/tasers-potentially-lethal-and-easy-abuse-20081216
Originally posted by no1marauderAnd she could have fallen and hit her head on a rock or some other object. That is NOT serving and protecting. That is abusing a 72 year old woman. A man that defends the police at all costs even when a grandmother is abused is NO gentleman. I'll spend no more time here, your Honor...Not guilty. This Juror has spoken.
Amnesty International has said that industry claims that Taser stun guns are safe and non-lethal do not stand up to scrutiny. The organization called on governments to limit their deployment to life-threatening situations or to suspend their use.
The call came as the organization released one of the most detailed reports to date on the safety of the ...[text shortened]... //www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/tasers-potentially-lethal-and-easy-abuse-20081216
His over reactions outweighed the crime.
Originally posted by smw6869Do you have a link? I suppose it's possible, Texas has a lot of stupid, repressive laws, but I don't know any state that makes it MANDATORY for an officer to arrest for failing to sign a traffic citation.
Dearest counselor, it is mandatory in the state of Texas that you sign the traffic citation, or you WILL be arrested. Even i know that.
GRANNY.
At any rate, she did offer to sign it albeit not in a nice way.
The Police Executive Research Forum, an organization composed of police chiefs and other executives of police agencies in the US, has provided specific guidelines for taser use. They contain this:
The weapons should be used only on people (1) actively resisting or exhibiting active aggression or (2) at risk of harming themselves or others, according to PERF. And the fact that a subject is fleeing should not be the sole justification for police to use the weapons. The weapons should not be used:
1. on passive subjects;
2. on pregnant women, elderly persons, young children, or visibly frail individuals (except under exigent circumstances);
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0068.htm
Originally posted by smw6869It depends on the officer if you WILL or will not. He could have changed his mind when she did, but instead he chose to give her a huge shove and escalate the problem. Some pricks have been known to do that instead of acting rational.
Dearest counselor, it is mandatory in the state of Texas that you sign the traffic citation, or you WILL be arrested. Even i know that.
GRANNY.
Originally posted by no1marauderGoogle is your friend... to wit.
Do you have a link? I suppose it's possible, Texas has a lot of stupid, repressive laws, but I don't know any state that makes it MANDATORY for an officer to arrest for failing to sign a traffic citation.
At any rate, she did offer to sign it albeit not in a nice way.
GRANNY.
Originally posted by cashthetrashSeems like yelling "OK give me the %$#^ing ticket" wasn't exactly deciding to become reasonable. She was still acting up and bumping up against the cop, once in her car would just revert back to screaming that she wasn't going to sign and start the merry-go-round all over again.
It depends on the officer if you WILL or will not. He could have changed his mind. When she did, but instead he chose to give her a huge shove and escalate the problem. Some pricks have been known to do that instead of acting rational.
Don't want no trouble?
Don't start no trouble !