Originally posted by no1marauderI have to say this one raised a grin.... Raises the image of the old bucaneer doffing his plumes to royalty like Prince Harry with a fat joint.. mmm me thinks not 😉
The idea that I bow to authority is soooooooooo ludicrous it almost makes me cry that someone is soooooooooo stupid to claim such a thing. Roll another one, Shav.
It's a bit like sitting in the stands at Wimbledon. 30-luv to #1Your serve Shavi ace him come on you can do it.
As for the thread I'm with Starry... there is nothing to fear what so ever if you aren't cheating, nothing has changed except what we all asked for has come about...the cheats are getting the boot.
Oh by the way I believe the dictatorship existed in Afganistan before the yanks went in wasn't that the taliban? I don't think Russ etc would like to be thought of in that vain at all.
personally i still think they should have had at least an e-mail to say they were getting banned, which they didn't get. sure, they broke the rules, but there's still common politeness!
also, arrakis, there is only a finite amount of moves available on a board. if a 1400 player spent long enough analysing a game then i'm sure they'd find the best possible move...
Originally posted by geniusDid the cheaters email everyone to tell their opponents they were using an engine? No. Do they deserve courtesy? No.
personally i still think they should have had at least an e-mail to say they were getting banned, which they didn't get. sure, they broke the rules, but there's still common politeness!
also, arrakis, there is only a finite amount of moves available on a board. if a 1400 player spent long enough analysing a game then i'm sure they'd find the best possible move...
The cheaters could send an appology through one of their cohorts/friends saying why they felt the need to break the most paramount rule of rhp. They could also expalin their lack of sportsmanship. BUT to be honest I hope it doesn't happen.
It's a shame IP addresses aren't fixed so Russ could warn other chess sites! In my experience people who cheat in sport and hobbies tend to cheat in other areas of life too... maybe they were lunch thieves at school?
Originally posted by Tirau DanI agree - ONCE they have been proved to have been cheating.
Did the cheaters email everyone to tell their opponents they were using an engine? No. Do they deserve courtesy?
The question is whether they deserve the chance to give their side before the judgement is made. In the case of someone like IM31, whose true identity is known and whose status as a FIDE ref will clearly be diminished by all this, you would think that was particularly important.
If the evidence was so "overwhelming", what harm in contacting these people and asking for their defence before hitting the nuclear button?
We can all agree there should be zero tolerance of engine use. But standing up for the basic principles of justice is not the same as standing up for cheaters.
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I'm organising a compo with a group of like minded people. I have just had cause to download an engine to analyse various games due to an accusation of cheating.
Now i've only been looking at games for a week but here are my thoughts on what I have seen.
The engine i'm using to analyse games, starts looking at the game and the top 4 moves appear at the bottom of the screen. For the vast majority of people the move they make appears after 3 to 5 levels of analysis. However, these moves gradually make there way down the screen and then drop off of the bottom never to return.
The engine continues to analyse moves to the Nth degree. What I have noticed is that some moves appear in the top 4 when it gets to a level of analysis 12-14 levels deep. Persons who select these moves are therefore picking a move which will benefit the player in 12-14 moves time. Now correct me if i'm wrong, and I know you will, but if someone is consistantly picking moves of this nature then they are either a genius or cheating.
Some of the players have vast numbers of games on the go and yet they are able to select the best moves recommended by an engine, everytime.
In the game analysis I have performed most people have a number no.1 move rec hit rate of less than 50 percent Max. (we are not good!!). And they all make moves not listed in the top 4 move recs. But one guy had hit rates in the high 70 percent and all of his moves were from the top 4 recs, everytime. The better the player he played the more no.1 move recs he used.
In fact in one game there were a series of 11 no.1's on the trot (mid game). During these 11 moves his opponent had 7 moves not listed in the top 4, 3 no.1's (mostly forced moves), and 1 no.2 rec. However, as I said previously some of his moves were in the top 4 list early on in the analysis.
My opinion, for what it's worth, consistant hit rates where the move selection made is only listed by an engine after high levels of analysis is proof that someone is using.
If they are not. Then my question to all the excellent players on the site is how long would it take you to analyse to a 14 move level mid game and select the same obscure pawn push that an engine does?
Footnote. What was the result of my investigation? Well the accused was not using an engine in the games I analysed. Who was.
Don't you just love that song 'smoke on the water'!!!!
😀
Originally posted by Grandmaster baterLet others cheat.........they are only cheating themselves as they learn nothing........
I'm organising a compo with a group of like minded people. I have just had cause to download an engine to analyse various games due to an accusation of cheating.
Now i've only been looking at games for a week but here are my thoughts on what I have seen.
The engine i'm using to analyse games, starts looking at the game and the top 4 moves ...[text shortened]... I analysed. Who was.
Don't you just love that song 'smoke on the water'!!!!
😀
Originally posted by Grandmaster baterI assume you mean 12-14 ply. A ply is a half move. Therefore that's 6-7 full moves (both white and black).
I'm organising a compo with a group of like minded people. I have just had cause to download an engine to analyse various games due to an accusation of cheating.
Now i've only been looking at games for a week but here are my thoughts on what I have seen.
The engine i'm using to analyse games, starts looking at the game and the top 4 moves ...[text shortened]... I analysed. Who was.
Don't you just love that song 'smoke on the water'!!!!
😀
Sometimes I do lots of analysis and calculation on a position. Occasionally I've spent an hour on a position. Most often however calculation for my moves isn't that in depth. I look for a plan. Can I create a weakness? Can I improve my piece development? Can I improve my king safety? Once I have my plan I check that I'm not blundering into a tactic and move.
Sometimes my plans are the same as an engine would suggest. Sometimes they aren't. Just because they aren't what the engine suggests doesn't mean they are bad.
Originally posted by Tirau Danno, you are right, they didn't. However, that does not mean we have to stoop to their level, does it? just because we don't have to write them a message doesn't mean we shouldn't.
Did the cheaters email everyone to tell their opponents they were using an engine? No. Do they deserve courtesy? No.
Originally posted by shavixmirActually my response is that i voted for Bush and have no regrets as to what happened in Iraq. I feel he did what was necessary, which is the reason i voted for him. It is regrettable that innocent people were killed but he didnt target those people and I feel the Ends justified the means. In other words it was for the greater good.
You know?
It's this sort of simpleton reasoning that has killed thousands of people in Afghanistan and even more innocent civilians in Iraq.
Just accepting and never questioning authority leads to dictatorships, imbicilic decisions and oppression.
I know your witty come back will be: "It's their site, they can do as they please."
*slowly ...[text shortened]... ck out and be prosecuted by the fundamentalists, you obviously care about something. Don't you?
Originally posted by Starryknight14The ends justify the means?
Actually my response is that i voted for Bush and have no regrets as to what happened in Iraq. I feel he did what was necessary, which is the reason i voted for him. It is regrettable that innocent people were killed but he didnt target those people and I feel the Ends justified the means. In other words it was for the greater good.
That's an old Jesuit saying...from the days...of...the...inquisition! How appropriate!
I'm sure the TOSSERS are really happy to have your sort supporting their fundamentalist causes.
I just find it ironically amusing
🙂
Originally posted by shavixmirActually, Bush's actions in Iraq were violations of international law and Crimes against Peace. Bush, like IM and his friends, violated the rules and should have had his "account" terminated. It is unfortunate that there are no International Law Mods for, if there were, the US would be out of Iraq by now.
The ends justify the means?
That's an old Jesuit saying...from the days...of...the...inquisition! How appropriate!
I'm sure the TOSSERS are really happy to have your sort supporting their fundamentalist causes.
I just find it ironically amusing
🙂