Originally posted by belgianfreakWell, we could be two distinct countries now, but I believe we would have been become staunch allies. The power that the U.S. has projected in the past 100 years economicall, politically and militarily probably would have been somewhat diminished, so it may have been detrimental overall (perhaps detrimentally for the world) if the South had won. The South could have become a lesser-secondary country to the North because of a lack of an industrial base and developed a "North Korean" type attitude-lashing out everytime their way of life seemed threatened...so as much as I hate to admit it, it was probably in the best interest of today's U.S. that the North won. It doesn't and cannot diminish my pride in my forefathers' ability to "open a can of whup-ass on the Yankees" and send them running back to Washington and points north.... 😵😏
Just like the skinheads and hooligans have hijacked the St. George Cross - I can relate to what you are saying there.
Is there a feeling that the US would be significantly different if the Confederate army had won? If so, how?
Originally posted by royalchickenTime is not an issue.Every bodybag is.No matter when.Stop wrecking families. I listened to the Bush spin.What he said was and it took 90 mins for him to say what he said was:TINA.There is no alternative.
Why do you identify so strongly with soldiers in a war that ended more than 138 years ago, which was fought for many vague reasons, and has more euphemistic names than, er, John Thomas (War Between the States etc.)?
I wonder how many people in England will be "ashamed" and "thugish" by displaying the St George's Cross today? There is a guy a few doors down from me and the entire front of his house has been covered by St George's Crosses (Not Union Jacks), I wonder if hes embarressed to be "English"?....
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Originally posted by 442He probably will be if our football fans live up to expectations in Portugal next summer.
I wonder how many people in England will be "ashamed" and "thugish" by displaying the St George's Cross today? There is a guy a few doors down from me and the entire front of his house has been covered by St George's Crosses (Not Union Jacks), I wonder if hes embarressed to be "English"?....
And of course the Turks, Germans, Italians and Dutch never misbahave do they? When was the last time flares were lite and thrown inside an English ground? Yeah, we get the odd bottle or coin, but you dont get riot police going in mob handed dealing with trouble on a weekly basis unlike the Italain league. Whilst our soo called "fans" dont do us any favours, we are far from the worst!....
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Originally posted by 442Football in general has a lot of problems, but it is the English who are percieved, wrongly or rightly, to be the worst in Europe. The fact remains that when a european cousins get down to a good "ruck" after the football they don't tend to do it draped in their national flag. When you see the football violence on the TV there is always a St George Cross for the TV man to focus in on. Hopefully, winning the Rugby World Cup can change the way the red and white cross is percieved around the world, that it is associated with friendly, well behaved fans in a world sporting arena. Today we all saw how great it is to have something positive to rally around.
And of course the Turks, Germans, Italians and Dutch never misbahave do they? When was the last time flares were lite and thrown inside an English ground? Yeah, we get the odd bottle or coin, but you dont get riot police going in mob handed dealing with trouble on a weekly basis unlike the Italain league. Whilst our soo called "fans" dont do us any favours, we are far from the worst!....
Andrew
Thats funny, during the past two European championships, when the trouble has kicked off, the was plenty of German and Italian flags being drapped and waved around, and if memory serves me correctly, they were also burning St Georges Crosses in the street. When will people wake up and realise, REAL footbal;l fans dont cause trouble?..
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
Let pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a galled rock
O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height. On, on, you noblest English.
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'
Originally posted by latex bishopHe probably will be if our football players live up to expectations 😀
He probably will be if our football fans live up to expectations in Portugal next summer.
Seriously, I was as guilty as you appear to be about suspecting anyone who wields a St. George's flag of being a thuggish racist. What changed it for me was going abroad (Canada and US). Every nation is proud of it's flag except the English. In Canada, all the immigrants proudly dispayed their flags, whether it was Romanians, Turks, Brazilians, etc. We need to reclaim the flag for ourselves and remove the unsavoury stigma. I think this is happening to a large extent, maybe since the Jubilee last year.
