How Far the Moon/Here, Kitty-kitty

Originally posted by josephw
The images shown of the moon passing across the face of the earth are just not right. Why such a close up view? If we could see the moon coming around the earth on the far left it would be smaller, growing larger as it came closer to the center, and then growing smaller as it passed around to the right.

But that's not what was shown. What I see is an orb ...[text shortened]... ill one of you learned scientifical fellas speak English and explain to me why I'm so stupid? 😉

Reason dies here.
Even though we are told the moon orbits the earth, when it doesn't, by gum, it still does.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Reason dies here.
Even though we are told the moon orbits the earth, when it doesn't, by gum, it still does.

It's one of those habits that just won't go away.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Reason dies here.
Even though we are told the moon orbits the earth, when it doesn't, by gum, it still does.

I have to say, even though I'm not as articulate as some, my eyes don't lie. The truth lies outside the box. In spite of man's science, falsely so called.

Thanks for making this so interesting. 😉

Originally posted by josephw
The images shown of the moon passing across the face of the earth are just not right. Why such a close up view? If we could see the moon coming around the earth on the far left it would be smaller, growing larger as it came closer to the center, and then growing smaller as it passed around to the right.

But that's not what was shown. What I see is an orb ...[text shortened]... ill one of you learned scientifical fellas speak English and explain to me why I'm so stupid? 😉

If you look at it closely, it is only going a small part of the whole circle, passing in front of Earth from POV of the spacecraft telescope, it is only moving about 1/200th of the full circle so there would be very little change in the size of the moon when those photo's were taken.

The whole project was just a sideline to it's real objective, The ground crew saw an opportunity and took it, the whole thing lasted about one minute or less so the moon would not have traveled very far relative to Earth. You would see it growing a bit bigger coming in and smaller going out but remember, at one million miles the moon is 3/4 of a million miles away and they used pretty high magnification, my guess is about 60X or so, making for a narrow field of view.

So you are seeing the moon only in a small part of its orbit around Earth. If they could have done that for a month they would have seen the whole cycle and the moon WOULD have looked smaller and smaller till it started back towards the camera so getting bigger and bigger till it max'd out in size where it starts to block Earth.

Don't forget, that was not the real objective, it was a side line and they could not repeat it since the spacecraft was on it's way and did not hang around for another month to do it again.

Originally posted by sonhouse
If you look at it closely, it is only going a small part of the whole circle, passing in front of Earth from POV of the spacecraft telescope, it is only moving about 1/200th of the full circle so there would be very little change in the size of the moon when those photo's were taken.

The whole project was just a sideline to it's real objective, The grou ...[text shortened]... t since the spacecraft was on it's way and did not hang around for another month to do it again.

That made this much sense:

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
That made this much sense:

I expected nothing less from you. You couldn't think your way out of a paper bag with a big opening at one end.

Try this thought experiment if it won't tax your brain too much.

Suppose there were not one but two such spacecraft, one a million miles away where the one that took the picture is.

Then a second one but at 90 degrees away from the other craft.

You do know what 90 degrees means right? one quarter of a circle?

So there is the second craft, also with camera's and because of great sync between the two, when one takes a picture the other knows exactly when that happened so the both take pictures together at the same time within one microsecond.

So the whole thing is over in one minute. Can you perhaps calculate all by yourself, just how far the moon would move in its orbit around earth in one minute?

We can round it off and call it 28 days exactly to get 360 degrees around the circle of its orbit. So 28 days times 86400 seconds. What is that magic number you ask? That is the number of seconds in one day so here we go with that incredible arithmetic again. 28 times 86400 is about 2,500,000 seconds it takes to make one trip around its orbit.

So one minute is what it took for those images to be taken, the whole series. So here we go again with that incredible arithemetic. Divide that 2.5 mil by 60 and you find the orbit in minutes is about 40,000 minutes for one orbit.

Don't worry, I am actually leading up to something here.

So the images covered about one minute of its orbit. Hmm, that means it traveled 1/40,000th of the circle around Earth in that time. Well 1/360th of the circle is one degree and lets be generous and round that out to 400, so 1/400th of a circle so that means we have the moon traveling 1/100th of a degree. If you remember, I said one arc second is 1/1296000 of a circle so doing that nasty arithmetic again the moon traveled about 32 arc seconds or about 1/2 a minute of arc around its orbit.

So moving 32 arc seconds, how much difference do you think you would see in the size of Earth in those images from the first to the last?

If you don't want to follow my logic I am wasting my time and your time. Do the math for yourself, I have shown you how several times now.

Given all that, you should be able to calculate exactly how much difference in size it would be using geometry. Slice the circle into four parts, a line going from Earth to where the moon is now. Another line from Earth but 90 degrees from the moon and the line goes out touching that circle that is the moon's orbit.

Since the moon is a quarter million miles from Earth, it moves in also a quarter million miles in the other dimension, so you could say it would be the same thing as if it were on a yo yo string, and in 7 days it would go 90 degrees around.

So that would be the same as saying it could be on a yo-you string taking 7 days to move from 240,000 miles to zero.

So 7 days times times 86400 seconds per day and you get it taking 604,000 seconds to go 240,000 miles if it was going straight up and down a yo yo string.

So 240,000 miles in 604000 seconds, That is about 2.5 second per mile which is about 2000 feet per second. So in one minute it would move about 24 miles up and down in that image, so 12 miles up and 12 miles down. Now with a 2000 mile diameter moon, that would be a visible change in size of about 1 percent.

That is the bottom line. This logic trail is admittedly a bit harder to follow but if you did you would see the moon would only change about 1% in its visible size which I doubt you could measure, especially by eye.

Great optical systems could certainly catch that tiny change but not human eyes.

Again, this is my analysis, did not need to google, cut and paste a single concept, because of my education all that kind of analysis was ready to rumble as soon as I figured out how to do it.

But I guess I am still an idiot no matter how much geometry, trig, calculus or even arithmetic I know off the top of my head, like I already had 1,296,000 parts of a circle is one arc second. How did I know that? GREAT SECRET HERE; I studied that kind of thing till I got it down pat.

You should do the same, then you would see how much of a fantasy world you have built up for yourself.

Suzanne, did you follow my logic in this segment, figuring how many miles the moon would move up and down, a change of apparent size using one minute of its orbit?

Originally posted by sonhouse
If you look at it closely, it is only going a small part of the whole circle, passing in front of Earth from POV of the spacecraft telescope, it is only moving about 1/200th of the full circle so there would be very little change in the size of the moon when those photo's were taken.

The whole project was just a sideline to it's real objective, The grou ...[text shortened]... t since the spacecraft was on it's way and did not hang around for another month to do it again.

Now you're speaking my language! Thanks for that explanation. It makes sense.

Now I'm going to go and see if I can find any holes I can punch in it. 😉

Originally posted by josephw
Now you're speaking my language! Thanks for that explanation. It makes sense.

Now I'm going to go and see if I can find any holes I can punch in it. 😉

Good luck with that! I have been, on rare occasions been known to make errors. Tiny as they may be🙂

But I am heartened by the apparent fact you could follow my logic trail. It would be like if you had another object also a quarter million miles from Earth but tangent to that part of the circle 90 degrees from the moon, so it travels with the moon but just getting closer and closer to that line that sticks out at 90 degrees and it just goes up and down in sync with the movement of the moon. It would in one minute move maximum 24 miles and since the moon is a couple thousand miles across, that 24 mile distance would be only about 1% of the diameter of the moon, not visible to Earthy eyes. Maybe a hootowl could see it, they have extraordinary vision but humans, fogeddaboudit.

But that is not the end of the story. That distance of 3/4 million miles has to be taken into account also so a distance change of 24 miles at 750,000 miles, REALLY foggeddaboudit.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I expected nothing less from you. You couldn't think your way out of a paper bag with a big opening at one end.

Try this thought experiment if it won't tax your brain too much.

Suppose there were not one but two such spacecraft, one a million miles away where the one that took the picture is.

Then a second one but at 90 degrees away from the other ...[text shortened]... miles the moon would move up and down, a change of apparent size using one minute of its orbit?

What the hell are you talking about?!?
You're making up crap and trying to pass it off as fact; same amount of letters, different meaning.
Pictures for this were taken every thirty seconds.
Your math is so far off, it's a completely different subject.

Give it up.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
What the hell are you talking about?!?
You're making up crap and trying to pass it off as fact; same amount of letters, different meaning.
Pictures for this were taken every thirty seconds.
Your math is so far off, it's a completely different subject.

Give it up.

Interesting how you can say my math is off but you never put up math of your own. Till then pisss off you squeaky maggot.