01 Mar 09
Originally posted by brian ashtonInteresting point of view.
You will probably return fractionally evolved down your own family tree some twenty or thirty generations down the line. A form of evolution is the only real answer as to why we should be here at this moment in time in what we like to call the early twentyfirst century. Why not the fifteenth? or the thirtieth? We have always been here is the most likely ...[text shortened]... ferent, being taller with a smaller little toe for instance (as we no longer swing from trees!!)
01 Mar 09
Originally posted by ivan2908Ivan, please forgive last night's failure to keep my promise to you. No excuse.
as the life before you were born ? (if you exclude religious explanations)
I mean, we are so afraid of dieing. (I didn't spell that right, did I ?) But approx. last 15 billion of years until 1985. (when I was born) wasn't that slow passing and boring as one would think. 😛
Seriously, the matter I am composed of existed since the start of the universe ...[text shortened]... o knows. (GB, please don't attack my thread with absolute truth from that other thread 🙂 )
-gb
01 Mar 09
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The moment of god consciousness varies from 4-6 in developed societies to late teens or twenties in pristine cultures. At the point of this
dawning realization that maybe there's something or someone out or up there bigger and stronger than a father or celestial body or idol
made with human hands, everybody makes a choice: "Yes, if you're up there I want to know you" or "No, I don't give a damn". If positive
volition is expressed, it is God's sovereign responsibility to provide salvation information. If negative, God has no further responsibility.
Edit: Anticipating your next question, yes those who die without reaching the age of accountability go to heaven. God is just which means fair.
01 Mar 09
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Originally posted by SuzianneThis is your comment my post responds to... meant to Reply & Quote. My bad.
I believe in many of the things you cover here. I'm not so sure about others.
What about the African bushman who lived his entire life without learning about Christ? Is he forgiven through the blood of the Lamb ipso facto? What then, of free will?
🙂
01 Mar 09
Originally posted by ivan2908If you mean reincarnation, then as I understand it, the reason would be so you could come back as someone/something else, in order to gain perspective and/or other different life lessons.
I am happy with myself, I just don't believe that I will be born again as my precise replica. 😛
If you mean born again in the Christian sense, then of course not. Born again means reborn, you are not the exact same person as you were. The Holy Spirit now dwells within you and that makes all the difference.
Either way, coming back as your precise replica is not the goal.
01 Mar 09
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyNot sure I buy into this "god consciousness" theory as it pertains to choice.
The moment of god consciousness varies from 4-6 in developed societies to late teens or twenties in pristine cultures. At the point of this
dawning realization that maybe there's something or someone out or up there bigger and stronger than a father or celestial body or idol
made with human hands, everybody makes a choice: "Yes, if you're up ther ...[text shortened]... e without reaching the age of accountability go to heaven. God is just which means fair.
What about the African bushman whose only experience of religion or gods at all is his tribal shaman's admonition to worship the tribe's totem built in the community area? What if this is all he ever knew and his parents also taught him to worship the totem and he lives his entire life with no need for any directing influence in his life? What if it is also his tribe's culture to steal your kinsman's wife if you could and to preserve your heritage with as many babies as possible, or to murder people from other tribes as a sacrifice to the tribal totem? What if he never even gives the slightest thought as to any higher power, since what he's always been told is sufficient for him?
In my opinion, salvation is accomplished not only through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, but in a change of heart towards God, turning away from sin, which is normally achieved when you accept Christ, when the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within you. Acknowledging Christ as your savior, that you are doomed without his gift is not enough. I believe commitment must be made and kept. Salvation through Grace is God's part of the deal. The follow-through is ours.
01 Mar 09
Originally posted by NordlysI'm not entirely sure, but I think he might have them a little confused with the Mormons, or Latter-Day Saints, whose elders (mainly young adults, 18-25) often use bicycles to get around when they're on their mission. The Jehovah's Witnesses in my area generally are older (40-ish) and well-dressed and get around in cars, but they usually park the car in a residential area and go from door to door.
I have, but I still don't know what bicycles have to do with them.
Seeing them (the LDS guys, rarely women) bike around on weekends in their dress clothes and ties, with a satchel of Books of Mormon on the back is a fairly common site in most communities in America, I'd guess in Europe too.
01 Mar 09
Originally posted by Suziannenever seen that before, i have seen some LSD-dudes biking around tho:p
Seeing them (the LDS guys, rarely women) bike around on weekends in their dress clothes and ties, with a satchel of Books of Mormon on the back is a fairly common site in most communities in America, I'd guess in Europe too.
01 Mar 09
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Originally posted by zozozozoHa ha! I don't think I have seen either of them. But I had LDS people at the door once, a man and a woman. The woman just stood there with dead eyes and a creepy smile (maybe she was on LSD, too). The man talked to me with such a bad (English-sounding) accent that it was hard to tell what he was trying to say.
never seen that before, i have seen some LSD-dudes biking around tho:p
01 Mar 09
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Originally posted by SuzianneLet me ask you an exceedingly simple and transparent question if I may. When you were a small girl and received a fantastic gift on your
Not sure I buy into this "god consciousness" theory as it pertains to choice.
What about the African bushman whose only experience of religion or gods at all is his tribal shaman's admonition to worship the tribe's totem built in the community area? What if this is all he ever knew and his parents also taught him to worship the totem and he lives his en d kept. Salvation through Grace is God's part of the deal. The follow-through is ours.
birthday or Christmas (maybe your first doll house with furniture or a bicycle) did you receive it gladly, hugging and kissing your parents out
of appreciation and gratitude or did you say, "Wait a minute. Here's eleven cents leftover from my last week's allowance to help pay for it
and, Mommy and Daddy, I'll promise to be a perfect little miss goody two shoes all next year"? Besides, promises are a cruel joke because
they represent compensatory behavior for lack of integrity. Whether you buy into scriptural truth or not is strictly your business but please
ceases and desist from muddying the water for other site members with your half baked and unfounded nonsense speculations. Listen up.
God's Sovereignty co-exists with the free will of man for the duration of human history (as part of the resolution of the pre-historic angelic
conflict). You disapprove? Fine. Take it up with Him. It's His plan. Your understanding of salvation and the receipt of the gift of eternal life
seems seriously flawed. The word 'repent' in both the Hebrew and Koine Greek simply means 'to have a change of mind toward the person
of Christ'. Here's the critical part. The inspired Word of God says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" and "To as many
as believe on Him to them He gives the gift of eternal life." You need to stick with what His Written Word teaches. It teaches "believe" without
anything added to it. How in hell do you come up with "turning away from sin"? Non issue in salvation. Already judged. Post salvation change
is a renovation from the inside out with growth. All new believers begin as babies needing milk, then move on to strong meat. Here's a shock.
We all continue to sin but have a remedy in I John 1:9. There is a key difference between being indwelt and being filled with the Holy Spirit.
You go on to say, "Acknowledge isn't enough". "Commitment must be made." On what authority? Our part is faith. Our 11 cents is an insult.
01 Mar 09
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDespite the fact that you never answered my questions, I'll ask another.
Let me ask you an exceedingly simple and transparent question if I may. When you were a small girl and received a fantastic gift on your
birthday or Christmas (maybe your first doll house with furniture or a bicycle) did you receive it gladly, hugging and kissing your parents out
of appreciation and gratitude or did you say, "Wait a minute. Here ade." On what authority? Our part is faith. Our 11 cents is an insult.
Does this mean I have to share Heaven with someone who thinks all they need to do is say "Sure, Christ died for me... gee, thanks!" and forever after, it doesn't matter if they become the next Manson or Hitler?
Is God that shallow?
Edit: Yes, I edited out the unnecessary personal attack.
01 Mar 09
Originally posted by SuzianneGod made eternal life provision for the entire human race. Best not to look down your nose at those with a different brand of sin than your own.
Despite the fact that you never answered my questions, I'll ask another.
Does this mean I have to share Heaven with someone who thinks all they need to do is say "Sure, Christ died for me... gee, thanks!" and forever after, it doesn't matter if they become the next Manson or Hitler?
Is God that shallow?
Edit: Yes, I edited out the unnecessary personal attack.