09 Nov 03
2 edits
Originally posted by ivanhoeSo on one hand you have the "ascended to heaven" ending and on the other "religious radical secretly escapes to India out of harms way " ending. I know which one seems more plausible to me, perhaps we should agree to disagree ?.
After the crucifiction He rose from the dead, He showed himself to many, many people and after that He ascended to Heaven ....... according the Holy Scripture.
Because His teachings are coherent and true ...
Of course none of this has any effect on the true & coherent teachings of Jesus. Athough it might have some philsophical implications to various church organisations. The problem nowdays is that there has been 2000 years worth of other peoples chaf which has been mixed in with Jesus's wheat. Still in that respect christianity is no different from other religions.
09 Nov 03
2 edits
Originally posted by Jay PeateaI spell your term to describe my faith with a big "C"
So on one hand you have the "ascended to heaven" ending and on the other "religious radical secretly escapes to India out of harms way " ending. I know which one seems more plausible to me, perhaps we should agree to disagree ?.
O ...[text shortened]... hat respect christainity is no different from other religions.hris
All we do is accept GOD into our lives and follow.
Other faiths do the same.
We all share.I have been to Jewish events.They wanted me to be there.They never expected I would be converted.We have different faiths but we all have the same GOD
I have friends who follow Islamic law.
A few days ago a Hindu who I share no more than a chat over a cup of tea told me about It was for him the day like to me it was Christmas.We shared his special day.I don't care if he is a Hindu a Moslim, a Jew ,a Heddonist, a Buddist,or whatever.
We are what GOD made us:In his own like.We can accept or reject.
Lyn
09 Nov 03
Originally posted by Jay Peatea
So on one hand you have the "ascended to heaven" ending and on the other "religious radical secretly escapes to India out of harms way " ending. I know which one seems more plausible to me, perhaps we should agree to disagree ?.
Of course none of this has any effect on the true & coherent teachings of Jesus. Athough it might have some philsophical ...[text shortened]... in with Jesus's wheat. Still in that respect christianity is no different from other religions.
In order to get to know and understand the teachings of Jesus I've chosen to read the Old Testament and the New Testament. In order to get acquainted with the interpretations of His teachings I've decided to study the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, because I consider these teachings to be the most coherent and trustworthy interpretations of what Jesus said.
.
10 Nov 03
Originally posted by Jay PeateaI cant agree. Christianity has substantial differences from other religions.
The problem nowdays is that there has been 2000 years worth of other peoples chaf which has been mixed in with Jesus's wheat. Still in that respect christianity is no different from other religions.
It does not promise victory over hardship, it promised victory through hardship.
Either way, the original Biblical text is very accurate. This has been demonstrated by comparing the Masoretic text, and Septuagint with the Dead Sea Scrolls, with remarkably few differences.
That society has changed is of little doubdt, but the Biblical text is virtually the same. Either way, you can actually find God and ask yourself if you want to.
cheers
10 Nov 03
Originally posted by pcaspianThis brought to mind a great old folk song by Joe Hill.
It does not promise victory over hardship, it promised victory through hardship.
"Pie in the Sky"
Long-haired preachers come out every night
To tell you what's wrong and what's right
But when asked how about something to eat
They will answer in voices so sweet:
You will eat, bye and bye
In that glorious land above the sky
Work and pray, live on hay
You'll get pie in the sky when you die.
That's a lie
And the starvation army they play
They sing and they clap and they pray
'Till they get all your coin on the drum
Then they'll tell you when you're on the bum:
You're gonna eat, bye and bye, poor boy
In that glorious land above the sky, way up high
Work and pray, live on hay
You'll get pie in the sky when you die
Dirty lie
Holy Rollers and jumpers come out
They holler, they jump, Lord, they shout
Give your money to Jesus they say
He will cure all troubles today
And you will eat, bye and bye,
In that glorious land above the sky, way up high
Work and pray, boy, live on hay,
You'll get pie in the sky when you die.
If you fight hard for children and wife
Try to get something good in this life
You're a sinner and bad man, they tell
When you die you will sure go to hell
You will eat, bye and bye
In that glorious land above the sky
Work and pray, live on hay
You'll get pie in the sky when you die
Workingmen of all countries, unite
Side by side we for freedom will fight
When this world and its wealth we have gained
To the grafters we'll sing this refrain:
Well, you will eat, bye and bye
When you've learned how to cook and to fry
Chop some wood, it' ll do you good
You will eat in the sweet bye and bye
Yes you'll eat, bye and bye
In that glorious land above the sky, way up high
Work and pray, and live on hay
You'll get pie in the sky when you die
That's a lie....
10 Nov 03
Originally posted by bbarr
This brought to mind a great old folk song by Joe Hill.
"Pie in the Sky"
Long-haired preachers come out every night
To tell you what's wrong and what's right
But when asked how about something to eat
They will answer in voices so sweet:
You will eat, bye and bye
In that glorious land above the sky
Work and pray, live on hay
...[text shortened]... nd pray, and live on hay
You'll get pie in the sky when you die
That's a lie....
Bbarr, is one of your reasons to fight Christianity and Jezus Christ that you have the feeling that you were lied to when they told you about Jesus Christ ?
11 Nov 03
Originally posted by pcaspianMost of the sources on the net say that the Septuagint (Greek version of the old testament) was written approx 250-100 BC, while the dead scrolls date from around 250 BC to 70 AD & the Masoretic text (Hebrew version on which most translations of the bible are based on) was assembled between the 6th to 10th centuries after the birth of Christ. I can't find any sources that say that Jesus was mentioned in the dead sea scrolls. I've assumed that since the original Septuagint was written before Jesus was alive, that his teachings would not be included. I don't know if the Masoretic text contains the his teachings but it seems unlikely, or if it is then the context must be philosophically different as the Masoretic text was written for the Judaism religion.
I cant agree. Christianity has substantial differences from other religions.
It does not promise victory over hardship, it promised victory through hardship.
Either way, the original Biblical text is very accurate. This has been demonstrated by comparing the Masoretic text, and Septuagint with the Dead Sea Scrolls, with remarkably few differences.
...[text shortened]... same. Either way, you can actually find God and ask yourself if you want to.
cheers
However the New Testament is based on collections of early scripture from Jesus life compiled in & around 150AD. Various chapters have being added, revised or excluded as deemed fit by the various church leaders through the ages.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the teachings of Jesus come primarily from the New Testament ?
11 Nov 03
I'm sorry that I have no evidence to quote, but I have always heard that at least one book from the bible is completely missing out of the text today. I have no faith in God, I do not believe he exists, but I believe far less in the faith that this scripture has lasted over 2000 years in whole and unedited. This is man we are talking about here, preserving the text...no way jose.
11 Nov 03
1 edit
Has no one ever thought of the possibility that we have already been judged, failed, and this is hell. All the facts lead up to it. Babtism at birth to wash away sins, being saved, lack of devine intervention, war, poverty, greed. Also there seems to be alot of gnashing of teeth around the world as of late. It would also explain the fact that we, and not animals know we are to die. Just as on death row. Maybe he/she made us just smart enough to fool ourselves. God is kind.
Hows that for depressing?
11 Nov 03
Originally posted by Jay PeateaSeptuagint around 300BC, Greek translation of the Jewish word.
Most of the sources on the net say that the Septuagint (Greek version of the old testament) was written approx 250-100 BC, while the dead scrolls date from around 250 BC to 70 AD & the Masoretic text (Hebrew version on which most translations of the bible are based on) was assembled between the 6th to 10th centuries after the birth of Christ. I can't fin ...[text shortened]... ect me if I'm wrong but don't the teachings of Jesus come primarily from the New Testament ?
PS: The Jewish tradition was to carry the word Orally. A rabbi and his apprentise had to memorise every word and if he got anything wrong, it was a rather serious issue.
Early Christians (who were Jews) carried on the same oral tradition.#
Masoretic text I believe were somewhere 10th century AD.
Dead Sea +- 140 BC
Neither Masoretic text, Septuagint, nor Dead Sea scrolls would have included any of Jesus's teachings as they were all Jewish works.
The NT is a collection of letters written by those believed to have been Jesus's apostle's or those that were 'apprentices' to these apostles. The were collected as a means of uniting all the sayings of Jesus.
Thus you will note Matthew, Luke, Mark and Paul all talking about the same events, however telling their audience about Jesus, from their vantage point.
Keep in mind that the Holy Spirit was very strong in early Church life, thus we believe it would have guided early church leaders as to which scripts were accurate.
Also keep in mind that every appostle was persecuted and died for what they believed was true (whether true or not).
Usually you can believe in the accuracy of NT scripts based on the content. Not everything seems clear and concise. EG: After everything the apostles were taught, they still did not believe Jesus would be resurected from the dead. Does not sound like doctrine written to support Christianity when the people closest to Christ didn't originally even believe in his ressurection.