01 Jun 10
Is there any particular successful Finnish language study program / method ? I should speak at least basic phrases and with at least understandable pronunciation by autumn. It took me 20 years to learn English which is relatively simple, and I still suck at it. So this will not be an easy task.
I heard that although younger generation of Finnish people speak English quite impressive, they will be not-so-friendly if I do not learn Finnish decently.
Should I order some crappy looking program like this - http://www.linguata.com/finnish/Basic_Finnish_phrases.html or there is some better option ?
01 Jun 10
2 edits
Originally posted by ivan2908Rosetta Stone.... But shouldnt you learn Begin first....
Is there any particular successful Finnish language study program / method ? I should speak at least basic phrases and with at least understandable pronunciation by autumn. It took me 20 years to learn English which is relatively simple, and I still suck at it. So this will not be an easy task.
I heard that although younger generation of Finnish people ...[text shortened]... is - http://www.linguata.com/finnish/Basic_Finnish_phrases.html or there is some better option ?
Sorry, bad attempt at humor there, but seriously, Rosetta Stone is pricey, but one of the better ones. Learned Spanish in no time.
01 Jun 10
Originally posted by ivan2908Just make sure you Finnish what you've started.
Is there any particular successful Finnish language study program / method ? I should speak at least basic phrases and with at least understandable pronunciation by autumn. It took me 20 years to learn English which is relatively simple, and I still suck at it. So this will not be an easy task.
I heard that although younger generation of Finnish people ...[text shortened]... is - http://www.linguata.com/finnish/Basic_Finnish_phrases.html or there is some better option ?
...
I'll get my coat. 😞
01 Jun 10
Originally posted by ivan2908When I was a student at Cambridge, there were 10 men for every woman, and the woman was not chosen for her beauty. I worked out that the highest percentage of foreign women there were from Finland, and so I learned the language in the language labs. I soon found out that there were only two words one needed to learn to a) meet such young ladies b)get a friendly response from them.
Is there any particular successful Finnish language study program / method ? I should speak at least basic phrases and with at least understandable pronunciation by autumn. It took me 20 years to learn English which is relatively simple, and I still suck at it. So this will not be an easy task.
I heard that although younger generation of Finnish people ...[text shortened]... is - http://www.linguata.com/finnish/Basic_Finnish_phrases.html or there is some better option ?
I used to punt along the river Cam until I came to Kings backs where the grass sloped down steeply to the river and was usually crowded with tourists. If I spotted a girl with really white, not just blond, hair, I used to shout out "Perrrrrrrrrr" rolling the r's.
If this blond girl turned round or stared I knew immediately she was finnish and would finish off the word by continuing "asuoli".
Perkele (pronounced Perrrrrrrr(with rolling r's)kele) is one of the worst swear words in finnish (meaning "devil"😉 and that is what the girl THOUGHT I was going to say. When instead I made it into the word "perasuoli " they would burst into fits of laughter and come and join me on the punt - the word 'perasuoli' means 'rectum' and the use of this word would pleasantly surprise them.
So go and study finnish at Cambridge is my suggestion.
02 Jun 10
Originally posted by ivan2908if you're REALLY motivated, and willing to put in a HUGE effort, it's possible. but it'll be very, very hard for someone coming from an indo-european language. finnish is COMPLETELY different to any other language you've ever met. (unless you happen to speak japanese)
Is there any particular successful Finnish language study program / method ? I should speak at least basic phrases and with at least understandable pronunciation by autumn. It took me 20 years to learn English which is relatively simple, and I still suck at it. So this will not be an easy task.
I heard that although younger generation of Finnish people ...[text shortened]... is - http://www.linguata.com/finnish/Basic_Finnish_phrases.html or there is some better option ?
here's something to begin with:
http://www.101languages.net/finnish/
after you get the hang of it, here's some reading excercises, completely in finnish but with the vocabulary included:
http://www2.edu.fi/ymmarrasuomea/
I just googled those up in five seconds, so don't think they're necessary any better than something you found yourself. they're just something to get the ball ralling, as you don't have any time to waste.
02 Jun 10
Originally posted by Rene Pogelhahah, that pick-up line would definitely work. 🙂
When I was a student at Cambridge, there were 10 men for every woman, and the woman was not chosen for her beauty. I worked out that the highest percentage of foreign women there were from Finland, and so I learned the language in the language labs. I soon found out that there were only two words one needed to learn to a) meet such young ladies b)get a ...[text shortened]... pleasantly surprise them.
So go and study finnish at Cambridge is my suggestion.
perkele is not really 'the worst' curse word, it's just the most traditional. originally it meant the god of thunder. like thor & the norwegian. so in essence by shouting PERKELE! you're simply summoning the god of thunder to give you strength.
here's a perfect example of correct pronunciation of perrrrkele! 🙂
02 Jun 10
Originally posted by wormwoodThe other useful word I found was the finnish word for 'frankfurter' which used to be 'nakki-makkara' (this was in the late 60's and the language may by now have changed and become somewhat americanised). In a further chat-up line that I translated into finnish was the word 'pic nic' - this chatup line was a complete failure until the penny dropped and I changed the word 'pic nic' to 'nakkimakkara' ....... in those days the concept of a pic nic had not been taken up in Finland (possibly too much snow most of the year, making it impossible).
hahah, that pick-up line would definitely work. 🙂
perkele is not really 'the worst' curse word, it's just the most traditional. originally it meant the god of thunder. like thor & the norwegian. so in essence by shouting PERKELE! you're simply summoning the god of thunder to give you strength.
here's a perfect example of correct pronunciation of perrrrkele! 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1PjDNWFOAc
It just shows you, you have to research your translation properly and tie it up with the socio-economic conditions appertaining to Finland at the time you want to go there.
Anyway, the chatup line started (in finnish): "Do you know the difference between a penis and a chicken leg" ... and when the girls said "No" which they usually did - they didn't want to admit that they really did. I used to continue with :-
"Well, Would you like to go on a picnic ?"
100% success when I changed it to "Well, would you like to have a hot-dog"...... especially in students of logic or philosophy.
So, the third word I would recommend to you is "Nakkimakkara".
I'm sure Wormwood could provide a perfect ttranslation, if necessary, because I've forgotten the finnish word for 'chicken leg' after so many years.
02 Jun 10
Originally posted by Rene Pogelchicken leg is 'kanankoipi'. nakkimakkara is nowadays just nakki. picnic as a concept was well known by your time already (summers here are very hot, as the sun doesn't set), but it just was called 'eväsretki' back then. nowadays piknik has replaced eväsretki.
The other useful word I found was the finnish word for 'frankfurter' which used to be 'nakki-makkara' (this was in the late 60's and the language may by now have changed and become somewhat americanised). In a further chat-up line that I translated into finnish was the word 'pic nic' - this chatup line was a complete failure until the penny dropped a ...[text shortened]... I've forgotten the finnish word for 'chicken leg' after so many years.
02 Jun 10
1 edit
Originally posted by wormwoodThanks for those links. Actually I will have obligatory Finnish lessons for two semesters. But that's in autumn. I do not want to come without being able to say NOTHING in Finnish. Please tell me (because it is not the first time someone tells me that learning Finnish is not all that easy); What is that makes it so hard for foreigners, the fact(?) it has completely different vocabulary ( no origin / roots from old latin and greek languages) or is it also the question of totally different syntax/grammar ? Because I would like first problem more. Don't tell me it is a combination.😲
if you're REALLY motivated, and willing to put in a HUGE effort, it's possible. but it'll be very, very hard for someone coming from an indo-european language. finnish is COMPLETELY different to any other language you've ever met. (unless you happen to speak japanese)
here's something to begin with:
http://www.101languages.net/finnish/
after you . they're just something to get the ball ralling, as you don't have any time to waste.
And yes, if I will live in Finland from three to five years, so that's quite good motivation. Well, I learnt HTML / CSS coding pretty fast and quite in depth using some help from this forum. Learning a foreign language could be similar just a LITTLE bit more difficult, demanding and time-consuming. I know, this is an absurd and totally inaccurate analogy but at least I can fool myself for some time. 😞
02 Jun 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ivan2908yeah, better start right now before you move here.
Thanks for those links. Actually I will have obligatory Finnish lessons for two semesters. But that's in autumn. I do not want to come without being able to say NOTHING in Finnish. Please tell me (because it is not the first time someone tells me that learning Finnish is not all that easy); What is that makes it so hard for foreigners, the fact(?) it has co is an absurd and totally inaccurate analogy but at least I can fool myself for some time. 😞
differences to indo-european languages (ie. 99% of western languages):
- no common vocabulary
- no linguistic relation to latin/greek/sanskrit
- totally different syntax/grammar
- vowel harmony, 'front' and 'back vowels' can never be mixed inside a word.
on the plus side:
+ word order is mostly irrelevant.
+ everything is pretty much written exactly as it's pronounced.
+ and there are of course loan words from latin/greek/russian/swedish and nowadays even english. the russian loans might be familiar to croatian, as another slavic language?
yeah, the plus sides are all pretty useless, you're in for a lot of pain. 🙂
notable structural differences:
- there are no gender for words
- no articles
- no prepositions but instead postfixes/suffixes. meaning everything that's expressed with prepositions in other languages, gets simply tagged into the end of the word. like:
into the house = taloon
out of the house = talosta
the same postfix thing applies to everything. related to that, all languages in the finnish group have also a plethora of cases. where as english, russian etc have like 5 cases (genetive, partitive, dative etc), we have 14, and hungarian 22 I think. all nouns, adjectives, pronouns, numerals, verbs and particles are inflected in these 14 cases.
that all means there's something like 160+ conjugations for each verb. and it doesn't stop there. where as in english there's, what, 4 or 5?
getting the 14 cases anywhere near right seems to be the biggest problem for foreigners. probably the essence of finnish lies right there, so pay extra attention to understanding them.
03 Jun 10
1 edit
a word of encouragement.
all languages in the world have been proven to be just as hard/easy to learn. as all children reach the same linguistic level at the same age. so objectively speaking, there's NO reason to think learning finnish was somehow harder than some other language. hey, if every little kid learns it, so can you.
at the same time it's also true that the rate you learn your 2nd 3rd etc language, is heavily influenced by how similar it's to your native tongue.
learning new languages isn't so much difficult per se, but laborous. just like chess. you can pick up the basics in a week, but building up the rest takes a huuuuge amount of continuous repetitive drilling. and the more you expose yourself to a new language, the faster you'll begin internalizing its inner structures.
03 Jun 10
Originally posted by wormwoodBrilliant exposition Wormwood.
a word of encouragement.
all languages in the world have been proven to be just as hard/easy to learn. as all children reach the same linguistic level at the same age. so objectively speaking, there's NO reason to think learning finnish was somehow harder than some other language. hey, if every little kid learns it, so can you.
at the same time ...[text shortened]... ose yourself to a new language, the faster you'll begin internalizing its inner structures.
One last point - sisu - he needs to know about that but I can't explain it.
Am I right in saying that this is a word whose meaning is only found in finnish ?
Finally, tell him not be be distressed if the locals say hello when they are leaving and goodbye when they arrive !
03 Jun 10
Originally posted by Rene Pogelwell the sisu concept is a bit hard to explain, because understanding it deals with the inner mental landscape. but basically it means that when you've lost everything, are dying of exhaustion, cold, hunger and have absolutely nothing left, nothing to gain, you still grunt "perkele!" and keep going.
Brilliant exposition Wormwood.
One last point - sisu - he needs to know about that but I can't explain it.
Am I right in saying that this is a word whose meaning is only found in finnish ?
Finally, tell him not be be distressed if the locals say hello when they are leaving and goodbye when they arrive !
what do you mean by the hello/goodbye thing? you greet by saying hi (hei, heippa, moi, moro, morjens, moikka), and when you part you say hi again. there's no goodbye (hyvästi), unless the person leaving is dying or never to be seen again. in formal situations you can say 'until we see again' ie. 'näkemiin', but even that is almost never used in real life.
one thing that always seems very odd, is that english speakers never seem to say anything when they hang up. they just finish what they had to say, pause, and then it's *click*. in finland you always absolutely need to end it with something like "okay, bye", or you're leaving the impression of being a dick.