22 Jun 07
1 edit
Originally posted by eamon oJust the sort of banal comment i would expect from someone who knows nothing whatsoever about the topic, and had a bigotted view on the general issue....well done. And to accuse the thread creator of jumping in..nice touch.
thanks kinkyafro. first some jeck calling himself huckleberry hound pastes a link and invites comments. so i check it out and comment. then i get this double-act on my case, then this twit huckleberry joins in. i havent had time to read all of the nonsense, but i stand by original comment, it is naivety and foolish "do-gooders" that bring about the sort of stupid violence that was described in the article.
good night.
Insults aswell, did your lil sister write them ?
22 Jun 07
Last year's attempt at a "Love Ulster" parade was poorly planned.
Those involved in the rioting were nothing but a bunch of jobless, track suit wearing, tossers who have nothing better to do than guzzle as many cans of Dutch Gold as their dole money will buy before picking a fight for no reason.
However, the "Love Ulster" parade was actually the Orange Order marching through The Republic because they are a bunch of racist tossers who have nothing better to do than wear silly orange sashes and go hatemongering while kissing the Queen's ass until it causes a fight.
Rioting was not the right way to protest, but the march shouldn't have been allowed to go ahead in the first place. It's roughly the equivalent of Americans allowing Al Qaeda to have a parade through Times Square.
The fact that nobody seems to have learned from this experience is astounding. Most people in the Republic would like peace in the North for those that live there, but nobody wants to bring those problems here. Any levelheaded Irish person living in the Republic will most likely tell you that they don't want the North to rejoin the Republic for a lot of reasons - none of which involve hatred.
The truth is that these are two very different countries now, and I am consistently surprised at how people in the Republic have pushed "the troubles" out of their thoughts, while those in the North have clung to them.
As a final addition to this post, I'd just like to point out that I don't mean any of this to offend, it's just the truth that I've seen.
22 Jun 07
1 edit
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3"....... the "Love Ulster" parade was actually the Orange Order marching through The Republic because they are a bunch of racist tossers who have nothing better to do than wear silly orange sashes and go hatemongering while kissing the Queen's ass until it causes a fight".
Last year's attempt at a "Love Ulster" parade was poorly planned.
Those involved in the rioting were nothing but a bunch of jobless, track suit wearing, tossers who have nothing better to do than guzzle as many cans of Dutch Gold as their dole money will buy before picking a fight for no reason.
However, the "Love Ulster" parade was actually the out that I don't mean any of this to offend, it's just the truth that I've seen.
Biased much ?
The love Ulster parade was actually a group of Victims of republican terrorism - whose families had been murdered by the IRA, attempting to march down the capital city of the country that they are actually supposed to be part of. I could make similar insulting descriptives of the Republican side, but i believe that this serves no purpose other than to bring a discussion down to a gutteral level. What is the point of unification if a group of the population can not walk down the capital city's main street ?
I agree that the march should not've gone ahead, as the wounds have not yet healed from the troubles.....but i also think that the braindead bigots with similar opinions to your good self, are hampering any healing process. Most of those in the north just want to live in peace, it is a pity some of those in the south, far away from the realities of the situation, hold to beliefs of hatred and outdated dogma.
22 Jun 07
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3
Last year's attempt at a "Love Ulster" parade was poorly planned.
Those involved in the rioting were nothing but a bunch of jobless, track suit wearing, tossers who have nothing better to do than guzzle as many cans of Dutch Gold as their dole money will buy before picking a fight for no reason.
However, the "Love Ulster" parade was actually the ...[text shortened]... out that I don't mean any of this to offend, it's just the truth that I've seen.
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundTo the first part that I've quoted - you're right. However, let's be honest - unification is not in the cards. Has Scotland been given back to itself? Wales? Northern Ireland will also not become a part of the Republic. It may become autonomous, ties to the Republic may be forged which allow greater understanding and peace, ties to the United Kingdom may be loosened, but the North and the South will not in our lifetimes become one sovereign nation. As long as unification is not going to happen, why should we, who have our own independent country allow those with views which contradict our right to that march through our streets? The Orange Order were there, I saw them. The first mandate of the Orange Order is loyalty to (for those in the Republic) a foreign country. The second is that Catholics (a religion built into our constitution) are inferior.
What is the point of unification if a group of the population can not walk down the capital city's main street ?
I agree that the march should not've gone ahead, as the wounds have not yet healed from the troubles.....but i also think that the braindead bigots with similar opinions to your good self, are hampering any healing process. Most of th ...[text shortened]... h, far away from the realities of the situation, hold to beliefs of hatred and outdated dogma.
As to the second part that I've quoted - where in my post did I say anything bigoted? I made no reference to race, religion, colour, creed, gender or sexual orientation. I referred to an organisation whose beliefs I've now pointed out? They are bigots, and I don't believe they have any right to their opinions here. The "healing process" you refer to is an issue for the North, not for the Republic. I did point out that no reasonable person wishes anything but peace for those in the North, on both sides of the fight.
If being a reasonably well informed citizen of the Republic of Ireland makes me a braindead bigot, then so be it. Those in the Republic are not far away from the realities of the situation any more than someone in China is - it isn't our reality to deal with.
22 Jun 07
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3Being a reasonably well informed citizen means you can call the victims of IRA murderers "a bunch of racist tossers " ??
To the first part that I've quoted - you're right. However, let's be honest - unification is not in the cards. Has Scotland been given back to itself? Wales? Northern Ireland will also not become a part of the Republic. It may become autonomous, ties to the Republic may be forged which allow greater understanding and peace, ties to the United Kingdo ...[text shortened]... of the situation any more than someone in China is - it isn't our reality to deal with.
This is obviously some other useage of the words "reasonably well informed ", that i have yet to come across......That's a lie, sadly i've come across a similar attitude many, many times.
22 Jun 07
"Those involved in the rioting were nothing but a bunch of jobless, track suit wearing, tossers who have nothing better to do than guzzle as many cans of Dutch Gold as their dole money will buy before picking a fight for no reason"
Good point, It's important that everybody realises that it was just an excuse for scumbags to cause trouble and it was incredibely naive of the Gardai not to expect trouble.
"i want a united ireland"...think that's about as likely as Ireland winning the 2010 world cup
Like most people in the south I'm not bothered wheter or not the parade returns..and if it does fair play to them
22 Jun 07
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundI wasn't referring to victims. I was referring to people who may or may not have been victims, but arrived wearing the sash and badge of a group which instigates violence. If the point was for victims to march, I'm sorry that it went so wrong. However, if people are showing themselves to be victims, they don't wear the colours of the bigots who created the problem in the first place. If we had a march for victims of world war two, would you feel sympathy for the ones marching in SS uniforms? Not likely. I think you need to set the emotion aside, remember that I do know why you feel the way you do (in a general way, I'm not claiming to know your mind or heart,) and read my words as they are, rather than as you would like them to be. If there was any condemnation in my original post it included the morons who threw bricks as much as anyone else. It was disgraceful behaviour, but so is showing up in your SS uniform to a holocaust rememberance service.
Being a reasonably well informed citizen means you can call the victims of IRA murderers "a bunch of racist tossers " ??
This is obviously some other useage of the words "reasonably well informed ", that i have yet to come across......That's a lie, sadly i've come across a similar attitude many, many times.
Just to clarify - I purposely did not repond to anything anyone else posted when I put up my original thoughts. That was an intentional attempt to be honest and keep the garbage out of it. At the Ireland meet-up I told you that everything I post is crap, a bunch of garbage to annoy, entertain, or instigate - I made a conscious effort to be honest and fair this time. Don't like it because I don't agree entirely with what you say? Too bad. I posted my thoughts, and my observations. The first you can argue with, but I've spent a fair amount of time coming to those conclusions. You know yourself - when I was younger I would have been one of the brick throwing a-holes. Look at the tattoo on my right arm. The second (my observations) you can't argue with. I saw what I saw, I've heard what I've heard. That can't be changed.
22 Jun 07
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3I now understand the depth of your opinion, and will not try to discuss the matter further.
I wasn't referring to victims. I was referring to people who may or may not have been victims, but arrived wearing the sash and badge of a group which instigates violence. If the point was for victims to march, I'm sorry that it went so wrong. However, if people are showing themselves to be victims, they don't wear the colours of the bigots who create ...[text shortened]... 't argue with. I saw what I saw, I've heard what I've heard. That can't be changed.
22 Jun 07
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3read this
I wasn't referring to victims. I was referring to people who may or may not have been victims, but arrived wearing the sash and badge of a group which instigates violence. If the point was for victims to march, I'm sorry that it went so wrong. However, if people are showing themselves to be victims, they don't wear the colours of the bigots who create ...[text shortened]... 't argue with. I saw what I saw, I've heard what I've heard. That can't be changed.
http://www.slate.com/id/2138163/
23 Jun 07
3 edits
The post that was quoted here has been removedActually I knew you were playing Devil's advocate and I was too. You seem to think that I am some sort of Republican trying to convince himself that it's okay to be a Republican and support the direction Sinn Fein are taking.
Let's clear this up:
I do not support Sinn Fein, I am not a Republican.
Firstly, your argument presupposes that republicanism and democracy are mutually exclusive. Actually, republicanism is more democratic than monarchy based systems of governance.
Secondly, articles 2 and 3 were revised so that Unionists could feel assured that they would not be coerced into a united Ireland without their consent. The consent principle is not mutually exclusive with republicanism, it just means that instead of coercing unionsists republicans will have to presuade them instead.
Thirdly, the police service changes are more than badge and insignia as you should know. Positive discrimination is a fairly radical step. The role of Nuala O'Loan as Police Ombudsman has yielded dividends too.
Fourthly, you conflate drug-dealers with Republicans. I merely tried to point out that the idea that most paramilitaries are now involved in organised is laboured. Maybe it's the case in the south but I can tell you having talked with prisoners, as part of a research project studying attitudes and tolerance, I found most of them to be living very modest lives. I found them to be happy that 'the troubles' appear to be over and happy with the direction Sinn Fein are taking. Quite a few would talk about different times and how there had to be different response but thankfully they felt that these times had passed.
Fifthly, whilst Republicans have followed a policy of abstention in the past there has been a trend towards the idea of functional imperatives. Relocating the locus of power at Stormount will make it encumbent, on a practical level, that there be closer ties with the government of the Irish Republic. Sinn Fein's strategy is to encourage these functional trends towards Irish unity. Sinn Fein is currently lobbying the Irish government to endorse their 'Green Paper' on Irish unity. They honestly do believe that the Assembly is the first step on the road to Irish unity. It seems strange that you can call this a defeat when Republicans have been trying to get into the assembly since 1994 and have now done so and with the lion share of the Catholic vote.
Your arguments are based on a series of false dichotomies that is based on looking backwards at Republicanism rather than looking at the direction in which it is heading. Sinn Fein have become increasingly sophisticated in their outlook: "ArmaLites are out, Armani is in."
I am a moderate nationalist and as such I would view the level of control that Sinn Fein have in Stormount as a defeat for the politics I support. Let's be clear about this Sinn Fein have more control in Stormount than any nationalist party has ever had. If Republicans have been defeated, why do I feel, as someone involved in organising on behalf of SDLP, that it's me who has been defeated?
On behalf of anyone else reading this and thinking wtf:
Take it the debates, spanky. [Addressed to myself too]
Edit: This was a rather BOLD statement on my part, 3 edits later and I cannot un-bold it.