Originally posted by moonbusNote: My daughter Heidi's IQ is exceptionally high, though less pragmatic and resourceful than Eric.
Whoopee! We be three! We can snub our noses at them all now.
Someone who writes symphonies at age three is very likely to score well on IQ tests, but scoring well on an IQ test is a poor indicator of whether one is likely to write a symphony in the next three years. I came to the conclusion that IQ tests test the ability to take IQ tests and nothing more.
He also began learning chess at the age of two and at the age of five in first grade won his first chess
tournament at the local community center (final round opponents were fifth and sixth graders).
20 May 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyPattern recognition of all sorts is a similar case, often seen on IQ tests and equally a slave to obviousness.
Out of my depth, moonbus, though I'm fascinated with the concept; any other examples of Mensa's 'testing for the obvious'?
For example, a test shows several two-dimensional shapes, the testee is to pick the one which does not fit. E.g., circle, square, triangle, trapezoid, pentagon, etc.
"Fitting" is relative to some criterion of fitness, and the obvious criterion is not necessarily the only possible one. One could be looking at the number of vertices in each figure and make a simple arithmetical series out of it--which reduces to the above-mentioned error (for some possible algorithm, any number of vertices could be the next one in some less-than obvious series). Or, one could be looking at some other feature of the shapes (e.g., their enclosed areas or circumferences) and derive some totally different criterion of fit-doesn't-fit.
Any set of objects--cat, dog, gerbil, cow, tiger, parrot--of which one is supposed not to fit, would be open to the same objection. One might think of "domesticated animal" as the criterion of fitting, so tiger would not fit, but there are indefinitely many possible criteria, such as "mammal" or "quadruped", in which case parrot would not fit, or "non-ruminant" in which case cow would not fit.
Chess is a wonderful way to see what different patterns different people see. Rudolf Spielmann (I think) said that he understood Alekhine's combinations, but not how he got to the positions which made them possible. That shows that Alekhine was seeing patterns no one else saw; one of the marks of true genius.
20 May 14
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Originally posted by wolfgang59How long ago was that? How did she fare academically? Has there been any improvement in her coordination? Could she communicate effectively? Was she depressed or did she handle her problems with aplomb?
I taught a girl with "two brains" - her corpus callosum allowed
only a fraction of information to pass between hemispheres -
sweet girl. Walking was a huge challenge and anything needing
coordination between left and right. Hugely brave; she often fell
down two or three times just getting from desk to classroom door.
20 May 14
Originally posted by moonbusAs you probably know the Mensa test is not a right/wrong evaluation but the answers carry different scores. to take into account different ways of thinking.
"Curious as to whether "the errors" were in substance or format (or other)."
There is a type of question often seen on IQ tests of the following form: "any integers x,y,z--what is the next number in the series?" And you're given a selection of a,b,or c.
There was a proof published in the 1970s that it cannot be proven that no possible algorithm will pr ...[text shortened]... ceived a reply.
Way off topic, this. Maybe we should start a new thread about Uber-nerdiness.
You can only point out errors in evaluation if you know the evaluation procedure, which you probably don't...
I know quite some people who only took the test to know that they would qualify for Mensa...I joined the club, even though 😲
Originally posted by PonderableYou may be right that Mensa evaluates different answers differently. I still maintain that a multiple-guess question which allows only one answer, but to which all answers could be right, is less than satisfactory.
As you probably know the Mensa test is not a right/wrong evaluation but the answers carry different scores. to take into account different ways of thinking.
You can only point out errors in evaluation if you know the evaluation procedure, which you probably don't...
I know quite some people who only took the test to know that they would qualify for Mensa...I joined the club, even though 😲
20 May 14
Originally posted by moonbusAppreciate the informed clarity of this reply; your concluding sentence is worth the price of admission. Thanks, moonbus.
Pattern recognition of all sorts is a similar case, often seen on IQ tests and equally a slave to obviousness.
For example, a test shows several two-dimensional shapes, the testee is to pick the one which does not fit. E.g., circle, square, triangle, trapezoid, pentagon, etc.
"Fitting" is relative to some criterion of fitness, and the obvious criterion ...[text shortened]... . That shows that Alekhine was seeing patterns no one else saw; one of the marks of true genius.
22 May 14
Originally posted by coquetteThe idea to put the idiots into one thread is doomed from the beginning.
Let's face it. We can all agree that there is a shortage of forums that has reached the crisis stage. Proposed new names:
Villiage Idiots
Challenged Norms
Flight of Ideas
National Recognition Days (e.g., Mover's Day, Staller's Day, Lagger's Day)
Puzzled and Annoying (or should this be two separate forums?)
The point being no Idiot would post in "Village Idiots". But if you give such a forum a good name like "Meet the bright" you will find them. Only it would turn out that those thinking themselves bright, like most village idiots you ahve in mind, but also those who distribute labels like "vilage idiot" would think they are at home there.
You could still have a nice forum with the heading "village idiots" if you would explain to your peers (people you want to have in) that the name is just a cover.
Posting this in the GF however would defeat the purpose since there would be a lot of posters writing a lot of *wink wink* ...
22 May 14
Originally posted by Ponderable
The idea to put the idiots into one thread is doomed from the beginning.
The point being no Idiot would post in "Village Idiots". But if you give such a forum a good name like "Meet the bright" you will find them. Only it would turn out that those thinking themselves bright, like most village idiots you ahve in mind, but also those who distribute label ...[text shortened]... would defeat the purpose since there would be a lot of posters writing a lot of *wink wink* ...
Originally posted by coquette (OP)
Let's face it. We can all agree that there is a shortage of forums that has reached the crisis stage. Proposed new names:
Villiage Idiots
Challenged Norms
Flight of Ideas
National Recognition Days (e.g., Mover's Day, Staller's Day, Lagger's Day)
Puzzled and Annoying (or should this be two separate forums?)
coquette's sense of humor is exquisite, Ponderable, as is her literary skill in the effective employment of hyperbole.
