01 Mar 04
2 edits
Originally posted by StarValleyWythe story, as far as my role in it, was played out nearly a decade ago and i am happy to be able to tell it to you.
I would like to hear the story. Especially if it has played "completely" out. Attempts at curbing "chimp credits" usually end in one hell of a war. Small scale, perhaps, but war none the less. <envisions twenty on twenty screaming ...[text shortened]... , not "eliminate". Good choice, i think.
In Freindship,
Mike
my school (woburn ci) was recognized as one of the best in the country and was somewhat 'feared' internationally for its gifted program (our gifted students regularly won competions).
in the late 80's, my computer department known as COW (computers of woburn) chose to go a different route. we merged the 'gifted' kids in with the 'regular' and even the 'general' levels - therefore, no chimp food for being labelled 'smart'. this of course angered a lot of the 'gifted' teachers as well as a couple within the department (so we had to get rid of them - that's another story though 😉)' but the 'gifted' kids seemed to appreciate being able to associate with the rest of the school (our board, you see, had segregation down to an art form).
then we went a step further and eliminated all exams and tests - now no more chimp food for performance on these mechanisms. instead, evaluations were done through projects with marks being determined by a certain amount of mutual cooperation between the teacher and the the members of the project.
more than technical computer dexterity was acknowledged though not necessarily 'rewarded'. students were encouraged to mutually cooperate, assist, explore, inspire and imagine - again not for chimp food, but for the work itself. because the atmosphere didn't have a built-in component of a 'need for marks (or chimp food)', students focussed on other things (including maximizing their computer skills for all the right reasons).
even the stern critics from the 'gifted teacher' camp had to acknowledge that something good was happening - after all, the kids still kept winning competitions (though the ranks had now been enhanced by kids who were not actually in the gifted program much to certain people's chagrin) even though this was an atmosphere of cooperation rather than competition.
what they had a harder time acknowledging was that there was a lot more going on in the classes that we usually don't see because we are too busy calculating the acquirement and distribution of chimp food. in this environment, the supposedly 'not-so-bright' kids were inspired because they had a chance to work with the 'geniuses' who in turn were grateful to be part of a team who would listen to their ideas and even follow through on them with a bit of mentoring. the 'geniuses' also recognized that those they were mentoring had different skills to contribute and were in turn mentored themselves.
some very powerful friendships developed as a result of valuing what others had rather than gloating over something they had not. one of the more memorable events that come to mind took place between two grade 12 students in a technically intensive programming course. one was a 'scratch for everything you can get no matter how you get it' competitive kid who was in a bit over his head and the other was a 'head in the clouds socially inept' wizard. they were working at the time, i believe, on programming a solution for the 8 queens and the knight's tour problems with minimal guidance from me and getting along quite well. one day part way through term, to my complete surprise, scratch kid comes to my office to tell me that he is dropping the course and that he realizes that he will be getting a failing mark since it was so late in the term. i ask him why because i thought he was doing rather fine though admittedly having some troubles. he says that he didn't do the work - the other guy did and he doesn't understand anything at all anyway and that he doesn't want to drag his friend down. then he starts crying. now i'm not too good with tears so i figure i need a little help on this one and take him to cloud kid to see what his opinion is. well, cloud kid shows that he is skilled at far more than computers and proceeds to tell me how his friend has it all wrong and with genuine kindness explains in detail who did what and how their discussions gave him ideas; how marks are not the only thing that are important; nor is coding skill even in a programming course the only contribution that someone can make; how they have worked together so far and he would be sorry to lose his partner.
scratch kid stayed having been given a new perspective of himself (not the least of which was his willingness in 'sacrificing' his entire allotment of chimp food for his partner) and cloud kid, who never seemed to care about anything as mundane as marks found that he could be quite a convincing orator and that at least some people would listen to him. the course ended. but they remained friends for another year before departing to different looneyversities.
there are many other stories and they go to show how important it is not to 'offend' the human spirit through the lure of chimp food - or if you are going to have to serve it, at the very least, be sure it is of the highest quality.
i think our department succeeded to some extent to do just that. the zealous intent was certainly contagious and the various groups that saw our program and presentations left a little less cynical and a little more inspired at trying something different. the COW staff and students did create what we quipped to our audiences that for one brief shining moment (that lasted nearly a decade) there was indeed cowmoolot!
in friendship,
prad
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by pradtfGreat post. I wish more of that went on in schools.
the story, as far as my role in it, was played out nearly a decade ago and i am happy to be able to tell it to you.
my school (woburn ci) was recognized as one of the best in the country and was somewhat 'feared' internationally for its gifted program (our gifted students regularly won competions).
in the late 80's, my computer department known as CO ...[text shortened]... shining moment (that lasted nearly a decade) there was indeed cowmoolot!
in friendship,
prad
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by StarValleyWyAre you saying that everyone vies for position?
Church is a poor example. It is designed as mostly a "Chimp Credit" reward system even the non professional church guys vie to be lay "decons" and "elders" and there is a tremendous struggle for influence within the local organizations for contol and 'say in matters.'
We won't even go into the big churches. Even the budhists vie for position ...[text shortened]... s their entire life.
In love... I actually admire this behavior, believe it or not.
Mike
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by pradtfExcellent world experience. There is indeed too much "useless" competition in the world. This battering innures us to the idea, then when "real" competition to our well-being come along, we duck and hide instead of stepping up to take a black eye. By learning that we indeed form groups that are mutually beneficial, we are able to not fear the black eye quite so much.
the story, as far as my role in it, was played out nearly a decade ago and i am happy to be able to tell it to you.
my school (woburn ci) was recognized as one of the best in the country and was somewhat 'feared' internationally for its gifted program (our gifted students regularly won competions).
in the late 80's, my computer department known as CO ...[text shortened]... shining moment (that lasted nearly a decade) there was indeed cowmoolot!
in friendship,
prad
What I wish could happen, and I have no idea how to do it... would be to have every child learn that they don't have to be everything, but they do have to be something. To be a part of a winning team is nice, but to actually do it yourself... is beyond nice. It is... and this is where my brain fails me. What is it? I don't want to sound like I am not appreciative of your excellent post. I just think that we are becoming used to the idea that a "team" can solve any problem, and that in reality, it is almost always the brilliant individual who carries the entire team. Look at NASA for example. I call it the "Forty Two Thousand Sensitive Engineers Who Dare Not Dream Club". They are willing to scrap the Hubble because it is "too dangerous" to maintain. Can you really see a bunch of cigar chompin' sixties engineers faced with that problem? On the other hand... it took our current pride of NASA bunch, thirteen days to move the Spirit rover off it's pad because it was "too dangerous" without checking everything thirty-five times through and having ten thousand meetings of all 42,000 sensitive engineers.
In my funnier moments, I envision Gene Crantz getting ready for the "Go/NoGo" on Apolo 11 with todays bunch of sensitive engineers. Lets just say that the vision ends with several heads stuck up several rather uncomfortable places, and a firing squad at noon behind the VAB.
I don't mean to make light. We have lost something important. Nerve? Guts? We need it back, and I don't know what we can do to get it. Maybe the crucible of WWII was what gave it to them. I don't know, but we sure don't have it now.
I am becoming too maudlin. Sorry. I enjoyed your success. Thanks for sharing it.
Mike
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by ianpickeringYes. More than that... everyone vies ONLY for position. STATUS is virtually the only currency we recognize when it comes right down to it. But that is the challenge. Come up with a singe example that disproves it. Be sure to read the above posts so as not to go over allready discussed ideas.
Are you saying that everyone vies for position?
Thanks,
Mike
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by StarValleyWyWhat about someone living totally alone with no hope of rejoining society? If his only motivation is status, he should kill himself on the spot, but his cells triumh over his emotions and tell his brain to figure something out to keep him alive. Not status here except the biological superiority over nature he needs to survive. So either CC's are not the only motive we have or they are very evolutionarily useful, depending on what you are willing to call a CC.
Yes. More than that... everyone vies ONLY for position. STATUS is virtually the only currency we recognize when it comes right down to it. But that is the challenge. Come up with a singe example that disproves it. Be sure to read the above posts so as not to go over allready discussed ideas.
Thanks,
Mike
01 Mar 04
1 edit
Originally posted by royalchickenYou have perfectly described the "homeless" problem that is so much a part of every major city in the world. Interestingly enough, these individuals form their own community and vie for dominance within it. The difference is that the loser usually turns up dead in a gutter, and the winner gets the losers coat,bottle and puppy.
What about someone living totally alone with no hope of rejoining society? If his only motivation is status, he should kill himself on the spot, but his cells triumh over his emotions and tell his brain to figure something out to keep ...[text shortened]... utionarily useful, depending on what you are willing to call a CC.
I wonder if a person could live alone? I would be interested in the world record for "Hermitry". I'll bet it is not for any length of time at all. At least by choice. "Thereaully" Walden Ponder himself felt alone and betrayed and he had visitors at least every week. He just didn't recognize them as such because they were "uninvited". Ain't high society a booger? <notice how i am become so sensitive to flash's sensitive nature lately?>
😏😉
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by StarValleyWyI'm referring to situations in which an individual is forced to live alone out of necessity, ie a plane crash in the jungle or something.
You have perfectly described the "homeless" problem that is so much a part of every major city in the world. Interestingly enough, these individuals form their own community and vie for dominance within it. The difference is that the loser usually turns up dead in a gutter, and the winner gets the losers coat,bottle and puppy.
I wonder if a person ...[text shortened]... ety a booger? <notice how i am become so sensitive to flash's sensitive nature lately?>
😏😉
01 Mar 04
1 edit
Originally posted by royalchickenAh! The old "Volley ball, you are sure looking good tonight, babe!" scenario! I think THAT movie answers your question. He became delusional. Then desperate. Then lashed himself to a raft and committed suicide. It was only the "hollywood" ending that was strange. He no longer had any way to earn credits, so why live? Why do anything? He burried his dead buddies. Credits. He did all that he was supposed to do. Credits. In the end, it wasn't enough. Suicide by raft.
I'm referring to situations in which an individual is forced to live alone out of necessity, ie a plane crash in the jungle or something.
Brings a whole new appreciation to the oldest of human taunts... "Who are you trying to kid?!"
It's been fun this week. I won't be around for a couple of weeks. Later.
Mike
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by Varg
:'(
Not very important.
Just as well I'm not worried about recognition for all my well thought out posts over the last year...sniff.
This is indeed sad Varg. There are a lot of reasons why people give recs. I give you one just to cheer you up. My proposal is that every RHP member should receive a couple of recs, just for the wise decision to join our very lively and interesting community.
.
02 Mar 04
4 edits
Originally posted by StarValleyWy😳 I only did it in the hope of making everyone happy 😳
I was much amused that RHP has resorted to the oldest societal trick in the book
Very enjoyable thread.
They weren't really intended as "Chimp Credits" - although that is certainly a use for the rec, but rather they were intended to allow those who don't view the forums very often to jump straight to some of the more enjoyed posts of the last few days.
Although putting "Total Recs" by a username, does, I grant you, undermine this statement completely.
A site I visit often - The Motley Fool - uses them and it helps to be able to view selectively a few posts without reading everything.
Soon, we'll be adding the 'negative rec'.
Perhaps not. 😀
02 Mar 04
Originally posted by StarValleyWyTell me SVW, what was your motivation for posting this in the first place?🙂
I was much amused that RHP has resorted to the oldest societal trick in the book. I only get on the forums once in a while, and I realize that to many of you that is too often. Good. I did have a good chuckle over the 'Recommend' feature. Most people would have a difficult time saying this, and I don't expect there will be any supporters of this idea ...[text shortened]... i needed to worry about it. 😀
Always sailing against the wind, and proudly alone.
Mike
02 Mar 04
Originally posted by Chrismo
😳 I only did it in the hope of making everyone happy 😳
Very enjoyable thread.
They weren't really intended as "Chimp Credits" - although that is certainly a use for the rec, but rather they were intended to allow those who don't view the forums very often to jump straight to some of the more enjoyed posts of the last few days.
Although putting ...[text shortened]... without reading everything.
Soon, we'll be adding the 'negative rec'.
Perhaps not. 😀
Chrismo: "Although putting "Total Recs" by a username, does, I grant you, undermine this statement completely."
It does indeed !
.