12 Mar 09
Originally posted by RagnorakYou mean when I specifically asked,
You might want to reread your first post, if you think that it appears that you "started this thread as a general discussion about privacy and how people felt about it"
D
"How do you feel about your privacy being given away by RHP?"
The discussion that followed, at least the posts that I made were about RHP conciously deciding to use advertisers that track your web movements instead of advertisers that don't track your movement.
As adramforall said, "it's all about money" because web trackers pay the site about 1000 dollars/month vs non-trackers only paying 200 dollars per/month.
This is the issue. Stay on topic. Any misrepresentation was clarified. Someone who reads only the first post and then makes up their mind that RHP doesn't use ad-companies that track your movements is obviously mistaken. I can't see anyone doing that though. let's get back to reality shall we?
12 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by RagnorakPerhaps it's beneficial to you to repost what i've already posted WAAAY back. Perhaps you've forgotten.
You might want to reread your first post, if you think that it appears that you "started this thread as a general discussion about privacy and how people felt about it"
D
FROM THE RHP PRIVACY STATEMENT
Banner Adverts
"The banner advertisements you see on Red Hot Pawn are displayed by third-party ad networks. Ad networks often place cookies on your computer to allow them to try to target advertisments based on which adverts have been viewed and which have been clicked. Red Hot Pawn does not have access to the information placed on your machine by banner ad networks. "
YUP, no exchange of information there is there? No cookies placed on our machines when we visit RHP. No information is passed on to ad-networks. Nope. None. Says so right there in the privacy statement. (<--sarcasm)
Seems pretty clear that RHP allows ad networks to place cookies onto our machines. So, if you use your head, you'd see that in effect RHP allows your webhabits to be tracked and viewed by allowing 3rd parties to put tracking cookies onto your computer. RHP is PAID for this. In effect, the Ad-network PAYS Rhp to allow the ad-network to track you.
To say that RHP is not complicit in this arrangement is erroneous.
Now, don't get yer panties in a knot. I AM NOT complaining about this. Just asking how the rest of you felt about it. Not once have I said I don't like it. Some of you airheads have just assumed it.
So, rather than just say I am wrong, why don't you explain exactly how I am wrong, how this site uses banner advertisers, how your explanation is different from the one i have given (which by the way is the only explanation ANYONE has given so far) and how my explanation is incorrect given the vague and sparse statements provided in the RHP policy statement.
There is a method to this madness socrates...
12 Mar 09
Originally posted by uzlessI have no idea... but doesn't this mean RHP DOESN'T do the fishing with their cookies?
Perhaps it's beneficial to you to repost what i've already posted WAAAY back. Perhaps you've forgotten.
FROM THE RHP PRIVACY STATEMENT
Banner Adverts
"The banner advertisements you see on Red Hot Pawn are displayed by third-party ad networks. Ad networks often place cookies on your computer to allow them to try to target advertisments based ...[text shortened]... ovided in the RHP policy statement.
There is a method to this madness socrates...
RHP isn't telling these companies where we go, they know where we go through cookies we get from those sites.
Am I reading it wrong?
Wouldn't good adware sortware or something be the solution here?
12 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Phlabibitlol, i'm wondering if pb6 has been up to no good here.... 😉
I have no idea... but doesn't this mean RHP DOESN'T do the fishing with their cookies?
RHP isn't telling these companies where we go, they know where we go through cookies we get from those sites.
Am I reading it wrong?
Wouldn't good adware sortware or something be the solution here?
If he hasn't then i will answer.
We've already established the it's the advertising that do the tracking, not RHP. There is no disagreement there. This should be clear by now. I clarified my original position many pages ago...as you can see from the first post on this page.
The issue isn't that people should just use adware or set their cookies properly, the issue is how do they feel that rhp has chosen to allow networks to track them while they are on the RHP site?
Rhp is substituting your privacy for cash. Our privacy is being bought off, for a price. We as users are buying 4 games and some forums posting rights in exchange for our privacy.
Now, there are some web-savy people here who know how to combat this but not everyone, and no where when you sign up is there an explicit statement about advertisers tracking your movements on the RHP site. A few pages back I listed class-action lawsuits that have been launched against this type of advertising and how lawyers are now trying to get information from these ad-tracking companies to use in civil suits for things like divorces etc.
"Sir you claim you have no money for child support but I see you booked a vacation to france, bought a computer and pay 40 dollars a month at a chess site....Wouldn't this money be better used to raise your kids?" (as an example)
I put it to you, and I leave it to you...
12 Mar 09
You have the power to protect yourself from ANY form of tracking on the web.
Do you familiarize yourself with a car before you drive it for the first time? Find out where the indicators are etc.? Learn what all the road signs mean?
Most people do, because they don't want to crash into a SPAM shop, or something similar.
Why should the Internet be any different?
People who get tracked (and even hacked) didn't familiarize themselves with the 'rules' of this superhighway and can't use their vehicle (browser), so should actually have their licences revoked.
Unfortunately, any idiot can switch on and log on, so advertisers will try to make money.
If you "read up" about ways to protect yourself before getting behind the wheel of your browser and read the ToS when you joined here, then you never would have your privacy 'invaded' oh so brutally.
12 Mar 09
Originally posted by Phlabibitsortware? Do you mean software?
I have no idea... but doesn't this mean RHP DOESN'T do the fishing with their cookies?
RHP isn't telling these companies where we go, they know where we go through cookies we get from those sites.
Am I reading it wrong?
Wouldn't good adware sortware or something be the solution here?
13 Mar 09
Originally posted by uzlessThe only way to use tracking data in a lawsuit is if it can be established
Lawsuits my friend, lawsuits.
See the last section my post 2 posts up. (in bold)
with certainty that the same individual uses a given computer. Also, to
gather the kind of personal information that would be useful for other
things than merely targeting ads, you'd have to spy on people using DPI
(as already mentioned) or some similar technique. The first thing you
learn when you use the Internet is to never share personal information
unless it's with a website you can trust that also use a secure encryption
protocol.
If I put all the information required to know all there is about me in a
suit case, then hand it over to someone I reasonably trust, who in turn's
gonna hand it over to someone I hardly know, who's gonna hand it over
to... and so on, until it reaches the intended recipient, I would make
damn sure that the information stored in that sc can only be read by
the recipient. I would put a lock on it, and I would write down all the
information in a manner that makes it near impossible to read by
anyone but the intended recipient.
Why is it people think that as soon as they're on the web, no one will
peek at what they're doing and/or what they're saying? If you don't take
measures to secure information you feel is too personal to share, then
you can't really expect that information not to be used by others. You
put it in their laps yourself, and then you say: this is intended for that
site over there, please pass it on without looking at it because it
contains very interesting, personal information about me.
Yeah, right. Like anyone's not gonna look. If it's in the interest of your
business you sure as hell will look and use the data if you can. So the
problem isn't really advertisers using tracking data, because the
information they get their hands on are usually to anonymous to be
useful in a very personal sense (impeach on your personal integrity), but
ISP's and sites you share personal information with.
1) If you're going to send anything over the web that you feel is very
personal and must only be handled by the recipient, you make sure your
connection is encrypted, and
2) If you're going to share personal information you make sure it's with
a legit site owner that you can trust not to share your information easily
(I say easily because we all know it's just a matter of money or
lawsuit), and
3) You don't visit sites of questionable content.
It's certainly refreshing not to have to look at all these blinking ads all
the time, but having them removed will not solve the problem you're so
worried about. Tracking and gathering of behavioural data is first and
foremost done by your ISP or some server close by. On every request
you make you have to pass through their servers, so they will not only
see you pop up in this site here, and that site there. They will know
every single thing you do on the Internet. There's no escaping that. If
you choose a tunnelled, secure protocol against a remote server, than
the owners of that remote server will see every single thing you do on
the Internet. The only way to stay reasonably secured is to never share
personal information over unencrypted lines with sites you don't fully
trust.
13 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by CrowleyThis is how your argument reads if it were translated into the real world.
You have the power to protect yourself from ANY form of tracking on the web.
Do you familiarize yourself with a car before you drive it for the first time? Find out where the indicators are etc.? Learn what all the road signs mean?
Most people do, because they don't want to crash into a SPAM shop, or something similar.
Why should the Internet be any when you joined here, then you never would have your privacy 'invaded' oh so brutally.
Before you go out for a walk, you should realize that there are people out there that might want to hurt you, or follow you and write down everywhere you go to use this information against you later.
Knowing this, before you go out for your walk, you should first go take a personal defense class to learn how to defend yourself in case of attack, and if you don't take a personal defense class then you are an idiot and deserve it if you get beaten. 2nd, you should always carry a broom with you so as you walk you can erase your footprints to make sure no one can track where you have gone. 3rd, you should buy an invisibility cloak so that if someone is in the same area as you, they won't be able to see you.
Now, I ask you. Look out the window to the real world. In the 21st Century, as free citizens of whatever country you live in. Should you have to do all of these things just to protect your privacy while you go for a walk?? Should people be allowed to track you as you are out grocery shopping or taking the kids to the ball game? How would you feel if your government did this? How would you feel if you found out your government had been tracking you from the first time you left your house, knows everything you bought at the shopping mall, knows how much time you spent with your friends, how many friends you have, and had files on all of your friends too???
You (well, most of us anyway) would be pissed!. But somehow, because it's the "internet" and instead of government it's "advertisers", some of us don't care.
13 Mar 09
Originally posted by JigtieI'm not sure what this has to do with RHP choosing an ad-network that tracks your movements over an ad-network that doesn't.
The only way to use tracking data in a lawsuit is if it can be established
with certainty that the same individual uses a given computer. Also, to
gather the kind of personal information that would be useful for other
things than merely targeting ads, you'd have to spy on people using DPI
(as already mentioned) or some similar technique. The first thi ...[text shortened]... nal information over unencrypted lines with sites you don't fully
trust.
13 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Palynka1.1 faster and easier than anyone else. The explanation may be wonky but explaining shortcuts to underlings usually is.
I agree that people who can't do basic math [hidden]like our friend uzless[/hidden] could have a hard time dealing with unwanted cookies.
Now, if you want to contribute something meaningful,
for once
then please do.13 Mar 09
2 edits
Originally posted by adramforallsad, there has only been about 3 people who got the point of this thread, and it has nothing to do with managing your cookies.
If only 😛
[hidden]uzless[/hidden]
I understand why you defend the practice engaged by RHP. We all have our hands in the cookie jar from time to time. The defense of, "well everyone else does it" works well for 8 year olds.
13 Mar 09
Originally posted by uzlessChrist. Your username is so apt.
sad, there has only been about 3 people who got the point of this thread, and it has nothing to do with managing your cookies.
I understand why you defend the practice engaged by RHP. We all have our hands in the cookie jar from time to time. The defense of, "well everyone else does it" works well for 8 year olds.