Shark Attacks

Originally posted by orkyboy
Dammit, that member had a bit of bite. 😉

Orkyboy, you'd better warn our clanmembers for lions on the run .... 😕

Originally posted by pradtf
of course, it is for these sorts of attitudes and actions by various interests groups that conservation and protection laws have become, both necessary and prevalent as more people become aware of the problems.

when the attempt was made to put the marlin on the endangered species list, the 'sport and recreational' factions protested that it was the comme ...[text shortened]... ere the decision stands presently - neither do the marlins, i suspect.

in friendship,
prad

I would never argue with you on conservation stuff cos it seems that you know what you are talking about but i have a different opinion.

Here goes...

I was recently in mozambique at a deep water fishing and diving camp place. This camp directly supports approximately 200 natives, that's like a whole tribe. Now this particular part of the coastline has two major reefs that are untouched by pollution and the marine life is stunning. The life of this ecosystem is supported by fishermen and divers, there is no nature conservation here, that is a luxury. Simple economics: If you can show the locals the money that nature can generate, they will understand. But tell them some rubbish about saving the whales and meditating afterwards and they will ignore you.

20km's up the coast you find other reefs but no fish, nothing? why? Because there is no camp site that supports the local community, there are no dollars coming into this community, therefore they are completely dependant on the sea and they eat ALL the fish. They aren't some hollywood african tribe that has attained a harmony with the environment...if it moves they kill it!

So I say that in our world where cash is king, you gotta kill a few to save alot.

KILL AND FEEL GOOD IN THE KNOWLEGE THAT YOU ARE SAVING AN ECOSYSTEM!!!

Originally posted by Black Lung
So I say that in our world where cash is king, you gotta kill a few to save alot.
...
KILL AND FEEL GOOD IN THE KNOWLEGE THAT YOU ARE SAVING AN ECOSYSTEM!!!

gavin,

there are undoubtedly many communities for whom it seems that the only way to acquire cash is through the slaughter and destruction of nature - and to a far greater extent that what you have described. it is understandably very difficult to get them to see that what they are doing is going to provide them only short term sustenance. though the ethics of their actions are still debateable, to them it is completely irrelevant just as you say.

however, it is not a matter of killing a few and saving a lot. what happens is that a lot are killed to satisfy the affluents' greed, superstition, status quo and just plain fun..

for instance, the ivory trade provided the livilihood for certain people, but when the demand grew, it became a booming business and nearly wiped the elephants out. now there is a ban on ivory so other than as poachers, the those 'certain people' don't exist.

a second example, the horn of the rhinceros or the paw of the bear is believed by some cultures to have miraculous curative powers, so they were hunted for big bucks until their existence became threatened and again something was done about it. and again, that livilihood is gone other than mostly through the black market.

as an example of the third, dissection in high schools (which is finally in the process of being phased out all over the world, albeit slowly) in north america used to make extensive use of frogs from india - the big biosupply companies made big bucks getting the indian locals to catch these creatures until it was discovered that the depeltion of the frog population was having a serious impact on the ecosystem in india - as a result of which the indian government made the frog 'harvest' illegal. this livilihood of the locals would have ended anyway - one way or another.

as for the 4th category, one of the most horrendous atrocities was that of the buffalo slaughters that took place in the us - while the white man was simultaneously driving out the red man. the profound words of chief seattle were:

"I have seen a thousand rotting buffaloes on the prairie, left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be made more important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive."

the whole of his powerful speech is here:

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?id=8106&page=1

and i do not think you will disagree with any of it.


these are all examples of 'simple economics' in action. they work for a while and if well-managed they may even work for quite a while - but there are plenty of ways to generate income without the killing or the destruction (though in my examples these seem to be a necessity) - which will inevitably lead to an inevitable conclusion.

you are right when you say that in our world 'cash is king', but the way it is working now is that more and more people are making less and less:

"The richest 50 million people in Europe and North America have the same income as 2.7 billion poor people. The slice of the cake taken by 1% is the same size as that handed to the poorest 57%." (see the rest of the stats here http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?id=7139&page=3)

this sort of thing happens over and over again, not because of the great enterprising spirit (which is without doubt a valuable quality that appears to be present in both humans and otherwise), but because some people just go and do whatever they want to using the 'because i can' or 'this is in our interests' rationale. one act of greed, cruelty or thoughtlessness may not have much impact, but it does add another brick to the structure of the argument - and soon lots and lots of people are engaged - ironically, even those who will be destroyed by their very actions while their well-promising 'employers' reap in the profits.

no one needs to meditate to see this though it probably won't do any harm 😀
it merely requires looking at some very blatant patterns throughout history and correlating them to current events. history doesn't need to repeat itself like a broken record - that's why we have evolution 🙂

in friendship,
prad

Originally posted by pradtf


...
a second example, the horn of the rhinceros or the paw of the bear is believed by some cultures to have miraculous curative powers, so they were hunted for big bucks until their existence became threatened and again something was done about it. and again, that livilihood is gone other than mostly through the black market.
...

in friendship,
prad

You are a bad guy prad... I read your posts and then I have nightmares... :'(