08 Jul 10
Originally posted by PalynkaIt is an elitist cult, IMO, which cites to cut out what I would define as normal cultural development, in all cultures! There's a hell of a lot more angst in my general philosophy against Steiner schools, and the serendipity of what's called 'prodigy' that comes with it. But I would refrain from posting that here - I'd be banned again! 😞 😉
I imagine it's not the only place he asked for information. Nothing wrong with hearing some opinions from here and weighing them appropriately.
Why would you shy your child away from a Steiner School?
08 Jul 10
Originally posted by mikelomReally? From the little I know of them, I find them a bit elitist in the sense that they seem to take a special pride in having done or sent their kids to it and that you're somehow a cold, uncaring parent if you don't. But I never felt any relation to children being labelled as 'prodigies' because of being there.
It is an elitist cult, IMO, which cites to cut out what I would define as normal cultural development, in all cultures! There's a hell of a lot more angst in my general philosophy against Steiner schools, and the serendipity of what's called 'prodigy' that comes with it. But I would refrain from posting that here - I'd be banned again! 😞 😉
Or am I interpreting you wrongly?
08 Jul 10
Originally posted by PalynkaI can't make head nor tail of what you are saying.
Really? From the little I know of them, I find them a bit elitist in the sense that they seem to take a special pride in having done or sent their kids to it and that you're somehow a cold, uncaring parent if you don't. But I never felt any relation to children being labelled as 'prodigies' because of being there.
Or am I interpreting you wrongly?
Knowing or unknowingly, you were there?
Did you go to one of these schools, as you never felt when you were there?
Masssive subtelty here in English language mate. That's not a pee take.
It's a financial way into University for a failure child; the child's special needs never being recognised.
08 Jul 10
Originally posted by mikelomI'd be interested to hear where you got the impression that Steiner schools are an "elitist cult"?
It is an elitist cult, IMO, which cites to cut out what I would define as normal cultural development, in all cultures! There's a hell of a lot more angst in my general philosophy against Steiner schools, and the serendipity of what's called 'prodigy' that comes with it. But I would refrain from posting that here - I'd be banned again! 😞 😉
Is it that these schools are funded by the parents and not by the state? Or do you feel that the anthroposophical movement is somehow brainwashing the children? What (direct) experience do you have of Steiner teaching?
08 Jul 10
Originally posted by PalynkaQuite.
... to put me off from the Steiner education is the magnanimous and vague pseudo-philosophical wording which tends to make me immediately sceptic about the whole thing. I also find that there is a certain elitism that comes with the "community" sense, with respect to people who are not part of that community.
...
The anthropop thing is a bit like that. There are a few knit-your-own-macrobiotic-breakfast types (who always look so ill, what's that about?), and some very earnest parents who are a bit much.
Mostly though, my experience has been good. Nice, fun people who care about their kids. The teachers I've met are all focused and involved and also seem genuinely happy with their work. They don't have to fill out endless lesson plans and pace their charges through passing endless tests to satisfy the current department of education requirements.
The community thing - it's mainly school based social events. There's regular fund-raising evenings - diners and dances that kind of thing, fireworks evenings and concerts. I think lots of schools do this though - don't they?
The main thing that I see is a good school, good music and art departments, plenty of foreign language from an early age and happy kids. The kids are not bogged down in the anthroposophical stuff - it's there in the background, but no one makes a big deal out of it.
11 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by orangutanThere is a Steiner school close by to me, here in Saraburi, TH.
I'd be interested to hear where you got the impression that Steiner schools are an "elitist cult"?
Is it that these schools are funded by the parents and not by the state? Or do you feel that the anthroposophical movement is somehow brainwashing the children? What (direct) experience do you have of Steiner teaching?
The intake is of mixed races and religions, and levels of ability within one grade for that matter. Religion, for the Thai kids is forgotten, and yet this school is supposed value all. Prayers and prayer groups appear to dominate the curriculum. Thia kids don't want to lose their Buddhist values - they are Buddhist. International religions are not taught to them, re morals and values, yet they MUST suffice to the school requirements! The school is on a non-starter before it begins to eduacate a Thai child well. I have spoken to many teachers around the globe, and they agree that the child's emotional and religious beliefs and needs are not catered for. Why bother to teach mathematics to a child who is unhappy, not interested, fearful; and not understanding of their own person and environmental value?
My attempt at an explanation here isn't a Thai phenomenon, it is worldwide within the Steiner environment. You will; you must; you shall; you ought to. That isn't teaching - it's indoctrination! It takes away from the child's own freedom of development! (Not that that is much different from UK government's or any country's, for that matter, needs to ignore the best ways of teaching!)
It is the pure fact that they are funded privately that permits many of the students to NOT WANT to study well! Their road is mapped, as they see it. They will be fine - no matter what. As they come from homes that are set up for life! That is the child's opinion, and that does not permit for good learning! It opposes it!
Edit: can't be bothered to correct misspellings. 😉
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by mikelomI'm sure the Steiner system has flaws, but I'm also sure that there is not indoctrination (as you call it) going on. I think what you're seeing is the culture clash between a schooling system started in northern Europe with mainly Christian values, being taught in a totally different setting.
There is a Steiner school close by to me, here in Saraburi, TH.
The intake is of mixed races and religions, and levels of ability within one grade for that matter. Religion, for the Thai kids is forgotten, and yet this school is supposed value all. Prayers and prayer groups appear to dominate the curriculum. Thia kids don't want to lose their Buddhist val ...[text shortened]... r good learning! It opposes it!
Edit: can't be bothered to correct misspellings. 😉
If the antrhoposophical teachings behind the Steiner Waldorf schools were taught to the kids then I could have some sympathy with your views, but this is not to be found on the curriculum at all. There is no "recruitment" drive.
Are you a teacher? Do you have children in a Steiner school? Do you have friends who do?
It seems to me - please correct me - that you have a load of hearsay "evidence" by which you're labelling Steiner education, but have nothing as first hand experience. Living near a school and talking with people not directly involved is a lot different from participating in the school directly.
I have no idea where to start with your assertion that by parents paying for education makes children give up wanting to study. WTF?
Are you opposing affluence for its own sake? Is privately (as opposed to state funded) education something you dislike?
Steiner schools don't make a big deal out of high achievement in terms of grades either. I'm not sure that the students are particularly advantaged in the Steiner system as typically they're sitting exams (in the UK at least), where the rest of the country has been coached into passing these tests for years while Steiner students only get them at the very end.
Anyway, you seem to epitomise the type of person who forms a simplistic opinion about a subject that they don't fully understand or have direct experience of and then stay rigid to that initial opinion.
p.s I can't find any reference to your school in Saraburi - the only two Waldorf schools in Thailand I can find are in Bangkok, maybe you should look them up.
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by orangutanDon't undermine what you see on the internet with real life, especially regarding people!
I'm sure the Steiner system has flaws, but I'm also sure that there is not indoctrination (as you call it) going on. I think what you're seeing is the culture clash between a schooling system started in northern Europe with mainly Christian values, being taught in a totally different setting.
If the antrhoposophical teachings behind the Steiner Waldorf ...[text shortened]... ldorf schools in Thailand I can find are in Bangkok, maybe you should look them up.
You asked for advice. I'm giving my experience.
Yes I am a teacher. Here: www.sjmis.ac.th
I am very aware of a Stenier school set up, happening right now - but is notyet clarified as one, as they are struggling to maintain student levels, i.e. are on a loss!
Yes, I agree that my interpretation and comments are not with a view to a UK standard Steiner school - but don't those schools maintain that their international level of teaching is not influenced by location or race? If they don't, then they are fundamentally flawed! Especially with the consideration that they maintain they are worldwide!
Do you believe all teachers and schools really teach to the written curriculae?
That those written curicculae aren't selling points in a market for fee paying families? Don't believe it for one second!
If you believe what I am writing is heresay, that's up to you. You believe I don't have first hand experience? That's also up to you. I dine with all teachers in my local vicinity, especially the farang teachers. They are bemused and somewhat disappointed in what they thought was to be a simple and normal transition from a school to another.
I was privately educated, in one of the best schools in the UK: http://www.st-edwards.co.uk/ - for your information. I support private education - in the right field (not frame) of mind and desires for the best for the children!
You say, "I'm not sure that the students are particularly advantaged in the Steiner system." If that is true, then why would you invest in such a programme?
OK... I know you aren't investing, and that you are considering teaching. But you must imagine you are a parent. For that parent what would and can you give that is true to their child?
To quote you yet again, "Anyway, you seem to epitomise the type of person who forms a simplistic opinion about a subject that they don't fully understand or have direct experience of and then stay rigid to that initial opinion." - those words sadden me. You asked for opinion and you got mine; a real and unsubjective one from my own experiences, and those of others who work around me.
I don't need to look up the internet, as I live here and see directly what is happening around me.
As for your constant reference to the anthroposophical teachings; Do you know what that means? It means, nowadays, that a child is indoctrinated religiously to pass and do well, or failure means hell! It is occultive, as I have said previoulsy, and it does not give warm education to a child. In its mere essence, it is a road to a failure in a happy life for any child! QED.
-M.
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by mikelommikelom, I didn't ask for advice. I was offering my experience as a parent.
Don't undermine what you see on the internet with real life, especially regarding people!
You asked for advice. I'm giving my experience.
Yes I am a teacher. Here: www.sjmis.ac.th
I am very aware of a Stenier school set up, happening right now - but is notyet clarified as one, as they are struggling to maintain student levels, i.e. are on a loss!
...[text shortened]... e essence, it is a road to a failure in a happy life for any child! QED.
-M.
If you are a teacher, then you need to brush up on some basic comprehension. There are only a handful of posts in this thread and a handful of posters, so you shouldn't have lost the basics of who is saying what so quickly (so much for the finest education that St Edwards can provide).
I repeat my claim that you're offering an opinion about something you have no direct experience of. From what you've said you've talked to some teachers (non Steiner) about a school (that may or may not be a Steiner school) and have decided that it's all wrong and bad. Because you and they say so. Oh, and because all the children there are "unhappy, not interested, fearful". These are children that you know I presume?
The point I was trying to make about the Steiner system not being the best for academic excellence, is that the "system" (for want of a better word) is more focused on the whole child, rather than on a narrow margin of what the current government decides is this years test target. My eldest has just gone through his GCSE's - hopefully well - this year was the first time he's sat exams. I don't believe that to be the case in the state schools (willing to be corrected here though, my last direct experience of them was when I was at school (cough)years ago), I think state school children get a lot more exams throughout their schooling. This is a UK perspective.
Other private schools strive for optimum academic excellence - hothousing, if you will. This would be at the detriment of music, arts, movement, drama etc which are fairly well represented in Steiner education.
Your last paragraph -
As for your constant reference to the anthroposophical teachings; Do you know what that means? It means, nowadays, that a child is indoctrinated religiously to pass and do well, or failure means hell! It is occultive, as I have said previoulsy, and it does not give warm education to a child. In its mere essence, it is a road to a failure in a happy life for any child! QED
I keep mentioning the anthroposophical stuff as that's what Rudolf Steiner founded along with the schools. The OP asked about advice on becoming a teacher - the anthroposophical stuff is very much part of that journey, not so much part of the child's classroom experience.
Where do you get this indoctrination stuff from?
Your assertion that "failure means hell"? WTF? "Occultive"? eh?
I can only assume that this so called Steiner school you know is nothing of the sort, or that you really have no idea what you're talking about.
You asked for advice. I'm giving my experience.
I didn't.You don't seem to have any (not direct anyway).
I was offering my direct experience having been a parent to three children all going through Steiner schooling and with a wife going through Steiner teacher training now.
I'm not an anthropop and there are elements of what that's all about that I'm uncomfortable with - but I'd never go so far as to say this a cult or that the children are being indoctrinated in any way (what is is you think they are being indoctrinated into by the way?), and I'm only uncomfortable with the overtly Christian bits -not being a Christian myself.
12 Jul 10
Just a quick note on Montessori methods. My son attends a Montessori nursery and I'm very happy with it. Its main principle is to focus, not on aimless play, but on activity in the natural environment. Children are self-directed. They are shown what is available to them and encouraged to try what they are interested in, in this way it is hoped they will fulfil self-set goals and bloom upon their own interests. So, a child won't just be given some felt tips and be left to draw for a while, they will be shown colours and shapes and asked if they would like to use the pencils to create something they feel in regards to this. My son has developed real depth of self-awarness, which at his age is as much a curse as it is a blessing, because he makes his mind up and that can often be in opposition to yours... But he is an individual, with growing opinions and skills which I do not believe he would get from a state nursery and which I hope will empower him as a boy, not average him out in the crowd as state education has a tendency to do. They offer a wide variety of things from yoga to ballet, from gardening to reading and all the kids there are happy, engaging and confident. There is no spiritual aspect, or brainwashing fear that I am aware of.
12 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by mikelomPhew, I was worried we went to the same school there, for a minute, but that one's in Liverpool. I've never heard of the St Edwards in Liverpool.
I was privately educated, in one of the best schools in the UK: http://www.st-edwards.co.uk/ - for your information.
Also, what do you teach?
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by Frank BurnsI think there all stoned. Education is what each child or adult makes of it. If a parent thinks that putting thier kid in one of these goofy schools make thier kid special, than they lost thier faith in the ability of thier child to evolve naturally. Some kids got it and most don't. Money can't buy brains.
You spelled Stoner wrong.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by YEAH BOYIt can buy training. The quality of education dramatically affects the child's ability to learn and succeed. The notion that a child will just meet his level on his own is nonsense. Maybe these schools are effective, maybe not, but your assertion that a child can meet his potential without good education is nonsense.
I think there all stoned. Education is what each child or adult makes of it. If a parent thinks that putting thier kid in one of these goofy schools make thier kid special, than they lost thier faith in the ability of thier child to evolve naturally. Some kids got it and most don't. Money can't buy brains.