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what do you do against cheaters?

what do you do against cheaters?

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Naestved

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Apparently a trend has struck many players. Or at least I've heard from quite a few of my friends around, that they've seen a sporadic change in playing behaviour.

Players start out playing horribly or just plain normal, and all of the sudden their playing style turns to the grand masters.

My own conclusion to this is, that people are adopting chess games (e.g. Chessmaster) to help them calculate the next move.

What do you do against such xxxx? cuz they can easily ruin the entire concept behind this place, and most certainly only achieve one thing, a title in xxxxx. Nuff said!

Clan-master of Fangorn and friends.

Flix


EDIT : Russ

belgianfreak
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the first thing you do is be very careful about who you accuse. IMHO it is best to never accuse someone of cheating, no matter how sure you are or how agreeved you feel, just don't play them again.

You can never be 100% sure if someone is cheating or not. Maybe they start out badly because they have no knowledge of opening theory but then finish strongly because their mid/end game is their forte. Maybe they have good days and bad days - I know I do.

Even if a player has chosen exactly the same moves as recomended by a program it is not sure that they are cheating. Programs try to chose the best move, so do honest players. If a player is good enough they may well pick all the same moves as a program.

As sure as you may feel that someone is cheating accusations in the past have caused nothing but harm. Cheaters used to be the vast minority - I hope that to still be true.

Jon

f
Quack Quack Quack !

Chesstralia

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in rhp chess i see two incredible conflicting desires
1/ play a million moves a minute and ride the confidence and adrenaline rush of superfast play. (i play about 1450 then)
2/ take the time to calculate each and every move, double check, look at all the crazy options, then move. (i play 1700ish, probly more)

a 250 point change is quite a bit. this not the huge jump you refer to, but it might be a shock to some players. i am sure some people would be more extreme than me in their playing habits, particularly if alcohol is involved.

e
Robbo

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Flix

Like Jon has said, it is quite difficult to know when someone is cheating, and I have had at least 2 or 3 games where I was playing an opponent of at least 300 rating points lower and they started playing an exceptional mid-game. But can I be sure this opponent was cheating I don't know. I don't particularly care the only people they are really letting down is themselves. Don't let it bother you, if they choose to use mechanical assistance then so be it, you still get a decent game and can still learn something.
I know what your saying and I understand your frustrations as I feel them too but rise above it, the cheaters are the real losers, doesn't matter how many games they win, they all have lost out in the end anyway.

-Robbo

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Robbo

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Have a look at this thread, is it right to accuse someone, even if you are 100% certain.

http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?id=8871

As flexmore says alcohol can come into it, I have played several games after a guinness spree, this is what I call taking "un pissant" moves and this has accounted for a few bad plays in a couple of my matches, and then the next day I am playing to my normal standard, so to the average onlooker this could look like a big increase in style of play and I am certainly not cheating. As Flix says if you think someone is cheating, mark their cards and don't play them again.

-Robbo

Russ
RHP Code Monkey

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Originally posted by eyeqpc
I have played several games after a guinness spree, this is what I call taking "un pissant" moves
LOL!!!!😀

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Naestved

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I'm not the defensive type in situations where I suspect a rat, I attack issues head on.

Being defensive in this case IMHO, doesn't solve the problem or - to be a bit benevolent - the possible problem.

I know I've played a few games while I've had a pint too much, fair enough, but I'm not drunk 6 days straight... in the games I have seen, having this defensive perspective would mean that people are "on pissant" for 6-7 days a week.

Lastly, I do not accuse anyone directly, I point out the problem at hand, should anyone feel accused. My bad, sorry, but the problem persists.

Flix

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Robbo

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Originally posted by Flixotide
I'm not the defensive type in situations where I suspect a rat, I attack issues head on.

Being defensive in this case IMHO, doesn't solve the problem or - to be a bit benevolent - the possible problem.

I know I've played a few games while I've had a pint too much, fair enough, but I'm not drunk 6 days straight... in the games I have seen, having ...[text shortened]... he problem at hand, should anyone feel accused. My bad, sorry, but the problem persists.

Flix
I agree the possible problem should be tackled, and yes being defensive does not solve problem but IMHO neither does tackling them head on, especially when suspicion supercedes proof.
So how do we tackle the problem, we can't, just don't play against them again if you suspect cheating or foulplay is afoot, I am sure that persistent cheaters will be found out eventually and dealt with accordingly by Russ.

-Robbo

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Very inconsistent

Sitting down

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Is it really cheating to use a computer program? I personally don't think so. You have to look at it like this:-
1) The player may be just learning the game so they need some advice and they can't exactly ask their opponents.
2) If this is an "experienced" player then they don't gain as much as you because they probably won't remember what they did.
3) How can you tell if somebody is using a computer? As stated earlier the program, especially in the early stages, will probably choose the same moves as a reasonable player anyway.
I don't use a program however I do own Chessmaster 9000 but have only used it so far to go over all the rules and generally sharpen up my game by understanding the concept of playing rather than actual openings etc.
Don't get too bogged down with this issue because the the whole point of being on this site is to enjoy yourself. Can those who use programs feel proud of their rating? No, I don't think so either.

P
Mystic Meg

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Originally posted by captainchaos
Is it really cheating to use a computer program?
Yes. It is cheating. Read the Terms of Service for RHP.

Other than that, you are right. As a bud of mine here at RHP once said, he doesn't care... just as long as they keep using the computer for every move rather than messing up everyones ratings with a great game one day and a stink game the next day.

If I think someone is cheating I don't play them anymore... I would never say a word about it, and let others figure it out for themselves.

P-

http://www.redhotpawn.com/myhome/termsofservice.php

(b) You will not use chess software, chess computers or consult any third party to assist you in any game (unless expressly agreed prior to any game). Chess books and databases can be consulted during play

belgianfreak
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Originally posted by captainchaos
[b]Is it really cheating to use a computer program?
Using a bot to tell you the moves is about the biggest no no there is here. And if you're learning then you can ask your opponent - just play an unrated game and you can talk through the moves as they happen, as I do with some opponents.

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Naestved

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I see it this way, I come here cuz I feel its a serious chess place, where people don't shit you over.

If someone shits me over face to face, he'll walk away with a swollen eye .. whether I get stomped or not, I'm gonnah make it clear to him, I ain't gonna take his shit.

Seriously, I lay down my mits for this place, if someone starts messing around, the only thing you can do is kick em in the nads and route them out before they continue their mess.

So I say put up a board for suspected thuds, and if they get the vote too often, there's gotta be something rotten, and out they go.

jeez, you don't solee problems by ignoring them...

Flix

pradtf

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Originally posted by Flixotide
Apparently a trend has struck many players. Or at least I've heard from quite a few of my friends around, that they've seen a sporadic change in playing behaviour.
i have noticed the same thing and i admire your efforts to bring this issue into the open without any specific accusations.

however, a sudden improvement in play doesn't have to mean that the person is using a computer - and even if that were the case, i do not see how it can be proved. also, i have been told that there are some 'lurkers' on the site - players who maintain a lower ranking simply because they do not want the attention or because they use the site to practise certain ideas, but occasionally 'turn it on'. besides, one rarely knows who is who over the internet.

the way i see it, if i get a good game (and i play a good game without the remarkable blunders that i still manage to achieve), i am happy regardless of who wins (though i am always most appreciative of any generosities shown to me - especially by present opponents).

in friendship,
prad

r

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Originally posted by Flixotide
I see it this way, I come here cuz I feel its a serious chess place, where people don't shit you over.

If someone shits me over face to face, he'll walk away with a swollen eye .. whether I get stomped or not, I'm gonnah make it cle ...[text shortened]... o.

jeez, you don't solee problems by ignoring them...

Flix
Right, well I frequently play great one moment, awful the next. It's often had nothing to do with alcohol and never had anything to do with cheating - I guess I'm just an up and down kind of player. Now if I felt people with paranoid and suspicious minds were judging me, putting me on their little boards and threatening me with exclusion, this would very quickly become the sort of site I wouldn't want to play on. And don't tell me it could never happen to an honest player. There's been plenty of mis-carriages of justice in this world and they've often used a much fairer system of judgement than the good old name and shame.

Yes, I'm sure there are a few rather sad cheats out there, but to be honest, I'm too busy worrying about the erratic nature of my own game to really care too much.

Rich.


C
NUTTING BUSTER

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Originally posted by richhoey
Right, well I frequently play great one moment, awful the next. It's often had nothing to do with alcohol and never had anything to do with cheating - I guess I'm just an up and down kind of player. Now if I felt people with paranoid and suspicious minds were judging me, putting me on their little boards and threatening me with exclusion, this would very ...[text shortened]... oo busy worrying about the erratic nature of my own game to really care too much.

Rich.


Couldn't agree with you more Rich. My own perfomance graph looks like a mountain range with peaks and valleys. I hope nobody puts me on their "board" I though Senator Joe McCarthy was dead!
Regards,
Charlie

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