14 Sep 10
Originally posted by enrico20Looks like I'm going to have to spell it out for you again:
Your friend hopsctotch is making this impression.
Ragnorak: "quote 1 user who has advised others not to use anti-virus programs"
enrico20: "Your friend hopsctotch is making this impression."
hopscotch: (over 2 days ago in Thread 133848) "I wouldn't recommend to, well, anyone I know that they shouldn't install an antivirus."
hopscotch: "Good luck with your assumptions."
Take the rage goggles off for a minute.
14 Sep 10
Nobody would just jump in and use an industrial CNC machine, even though you could probably eventually get it to punch and cut out something close to what you need for your powder coated bird feeder.
To get it to do what you need, you need training.
The problem with our connected world at the moment is everyone, including my mother, is connected to the web, with credit card in hand, but there is no training/licensing necessary.
Unfortunately using a PC to get some pictures of the grandkids is just TOO EASY, which means people who do not understand the dangers are using the web.
I wish we could get people to do some training and a test before they are allowed to connect, which would mean much less idiots with virtual bulls eyes painted on their backs and a much smaller target for these malware syndicates, which would mean I didn't have to respond in this specific thread...
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by Palynkayes, but between buying a stick of rams to allow an antivirus to run in the background and making sure you verify each and every site you visit and all the things crowley said, i like my odds a little better.
But we all do that at some point, right? There's a trade-off between resources used and how safe you can be. So you also stop when you like your odds.
i use usb sticks which is kinda as gross as using another's toothbrush in terms of germs, i might click the occasional link i get at work during funny hours(all the time) and so on. i don't quarantine my computer.
i am not certain but i do think my antivirus takes up less resources than a firefox session.
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by wormwoodand aren't computer experts the ones trying to get into your computer in the first place?
there's no av product to remedy stupidity. the only way to be 100% safe is to never turn your computer on.
stupidity related causes aside, FORCING your way inside even a half-assedly secured computer takes an expert. also time, a reason for deliberately targetting your specific machine, and a great deal of effort. a script kiddie is not an expert, they c ...[text shortened]... rfectly okay. and if you trip, learn from it, instead of blaming the software you misused.
are you the ones that say that since your mail is going to get hacked anyway you might as well have 12345?
also just because you wake up in the morning(3:00 pm) hungover and you click on a link without hinking doesn't make you stupid. at that point i would like to have a last line of defense no matter how feeble it is.
14 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ZahlanziBut Crowley (or hopscotch) never recommended anyone to not use anti-viruses, what they said is that having an anti-virus can give you a false sense of security and should not be seen as a replacement for defensive browsing (to parallel with defensive driving).
yes, but between buying a stick of rams to allow an antivirus to run in the background and making sure you verify each and every site you visit and all the things crowley said, i like my odds a little better.
i use usb sticks which is kinda as gross as using another's toothbrush in terms of germs, i might click the occasional link i get at work during fu
i am not certain but i do think my antivirus takes up less resources than a firefox session.
The idea is that they are complements and yet often all attention is devoted only to the AV side of the issue.
14 Sep 10
Someone who is experienced in IT who doesn't use anti-virus software advising less experienced people in IT to use anti-virus is similar to an experienced free climber advising a less experienced climber to use safety equipment.
The experienced free climber *knows* what he/she is doing, and would find the safety equipment a hindrance (e.g less freedom of movement).
Likewise, an experienced IT person *knows* what he/she is doing, and would find anti-virus software a hindrance (e.g. taking up valuable time/resources).
Myself, not being a climber at all, will feel that the free climber is crazy, but I am not in a position to tell him/her what to do.
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by lauseySounds like something from the wrong end of a cow. Perhaps this is why you have incidents like these, just rely on your computer experts right:-
Someone who is experienced in IT who doesn't use anti-virus software advising less experienced people in IT to use anti-virus is similar to an experienced free climber advising a less experienced climber to use safety equipment.
The experienced free climber *knows* what he/she is doing, and would find the safety equipment a hindrance (e.g less freedom of m ...[text shortened]... ill feel that the free climber is crazy, but I am not in a position to tell him/her what to do.
Pentagon Source Says China Hacked Defense Department Computers
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295640,00.html
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by Palynkathats what i got from their "only stupid and/or girly people use av's, real men stop the viruses with their awesome telekinetic abilities".
But Crowley (or hopscotch) never recommended anyone to not use anti-viruses, what they said is that having an anti-virus can give you a false sense of security and should not be seen as a replacement for defensive browsing (to parallel with defensive driving).
The idea is that they are complements and yet often all attention is devoted only to the AV side of the issue.
yes, common sense should not be replaced with an av. my stance is "av's are worth the resources they are using, have an av and common sense".
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by enrico20Aside from the fact that anti-virus software would not stop such an attack, it still does not invalidate my argument.
Sounds like something from the wrong end of a cow. Perhaps this is why you have incidents like these, just rely on your computer experts right:-
[b]Pentagon Source Says China Hacked Defense Department Computers
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295640,00.html[/b]
Certainly it would be advisable to put anti-virus software on less experienced people's PCs. I have not (or anyone else) specifically said, "Do not install anti-virus software on your machine". I am saying that experienced people do not necessarily need to install anti-virus on their *own* machines.
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by CrowleyI downloaded MS Security Essentials and have 2 HD's being checked out now. After running Trend Micro, Malwarebytes, Superantispyware, then MS Security Essentials, it came up with this on the F drive, among others:
Eh? I don't know how you got there from what I've posted here regarding security software...
Trojan Win32/hiloti.gen!D
Here is a link to what MS says about this particular Trojan:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/Threat/Encyclopedia/Entry.aspx?name=Trojan%3aWin32%2fHiloti.gen!D
Are you going to assume that is just another false positive? Also, if you had this tro on your own computer for whatever reason, how would you ever know it was there? Do you do registry checks on a regular basis? Run Hijack this a lot? This one likes to run in the background and do nasties where you can't see. How do you figure out you have one of these jobs?
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by sonhouseFirst off, I never assumed you had definitely had false-positives, just wanted to make you aware that AV software many times err on the side of caution and you shouldn't panic...
I downloaded MS Security Essentials and have 2 HD's being checked out now. After running Trend Micro, Malwarebytes, Superantispyware, then MS Security Essentials, it came up with this on the F drive, among others:
Trojan Win32/hiloti.gen!D
Here is a link to what MS says about this particular Trojan:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/Threat/ ...[text shortened]... ckground and do nasties where you can't see. How do you figure out you have one of these jobs?
MSSE doesn't really pop out false-positives, but is usually quite adept at fixing these types of issues..
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by CrowleyThere is something odd going on with that, it ran and said there were these 4 badguys and when I hit 'clean computer' it got about 3/4 done and hasn't gone further in 30 minutes. Could it be having interference with Trend Micro? The process showing is MsMpEng.exe going from 4% CPU time to 80+ and the memory usage from 98 megs to over 120. It seems to run for a few minutes at the 50% or so mark, then run down to 4 or so then a fem minutes later back into the 30's and 40's and a few minutes later down to 2 or 4 again. Any idea what could be going on under the hood to cause that kind of behavior? If it was trying to take out a virus on the same HD it would be one thing but the trojans and such here are listed on the slave, the F drive. ???
First off, I never assumed you had definitely had false-positives, just wanted to make you aware that AV software many times err on the side of caution and you shouldn't panic...
MSSE doesn't really pop out false-positives, but is usually quite adept at fixing these types of issues..
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by sonhouseNever had this problem, but a quick Google got me this:
There is something odd going on with that, it ran and said there were these 4 badguys and when I hit 'clean computer' it got about 3/4 done and hasn't gone further in 30 minutes. Could it be having interference with Trend Micro? The process showing is MsMpEng.exe going from 4% CPU time to 80+ and the memory usage from 98 megs to over 120. It seems to run fo ...[text shortened]... would be one thing but the trojans and such here are listed on the slave, the F drive. ???
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en/msestart/thread/5589483a-dd6e-43e4-bad6-97a89bfe12c0
14 Sep 10
Originally posted by Zahlanzi1) no. unless you're the ceo of a big company, or someone else who could have something of real value on your computer.
and aren't computer experts the ones trying to get into your computer in the first place?
are you the ones that say that since your mail is going to get hacked anyway you might as well have 12345?
also just because you wake up in the morning(3:00 pm) hungover and you click on a link without hinking doesn't make you stupid. at that point i would like to have a last line of defense no matter how feeble it is.
2) no.
3) it absolutely does. 3b) there's no great harm in that, but you'd still be vulnerable to the effects of stupidity.