Originally posted by jimmyb270Jesus claimed to be God. He claimed to be the Way, the Truth and Life itself.
But why do you believe him? If I stood up and claimed to be the son of god, I'd be scorned by all Christians as a blasphemer, and by everyone else as a nutcase. Why was Jesus different?
Steerpike, good points on the pseudo-religions, but I don't think ever ...[text shortened]... men are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means."
- Clarence Darrow, Scopes trial
"But why do you believe him? If I stood up and claimed to be the son of god, I'd be scorned by all Christians as a blasphemer, and by everyone else as a nutcase. Why was Jesus different?"
He performed miracles, forgave sins, preached and, most important thing of all, He rose from the dead. I decided to accept the reports made by Jewish people 2000 years ago as being reliable and trustworthy. These reports are called the New Testament.
Jezus also was accused of being a blasphemer. It was one of the reasons they gave Him the death penalty. He was not allowed of being who He really is ......
Latex Bishop: "When sciences provides all the answers, as one day logically it will, what will religion do then? Probably a another big war of belivers against non-believers."
Your remark shows one of the big misunderstandings about what the Bible is all about. The Bible is NOT a scientific book. It's not even a wannabee scientific book. It's not about the factual creation of the earth, it's NOT about the developement of species, it's not about whether the earth is flat or round. The Bible does NOT deal with that kind of knowledge. If I state that the Bible is about the wisdom of how to love your wife and children, then that is more true. The Bible deals with the questions and problems arising in the relationship of God and His people and it deals with the problems and questions in the relations between humans from one to another.The Bible is about the plan God has to make people happy. The Bible is a book about relations and about a plan how to make them work !
So if you state that it is logical (?) that sciences will eventually provide all the answers, than that is a statement I cannot understand at all knowing that the Bible is not a scientific book. It's NOT some sort of encyclopedia. The only way to find out what it is all about is to read it ...
Originally posted by jimmyb270Well, Mr Pratchett need not worrying. God does not take in any "just in casers". There is not such a thing as I believe in God "just in case". It will not help you in any way. There can not be salvation when you do not convert. That means more than just saying "I believe in God". It means that you have to serve God .......
I heard another quote on this from the author Terry Pratchett. I can't remember the exact quote, but someone asked him if he thought he should believe in God 'just in case' and he said words to the effect that he didn't think he'd want to spend eternity with a god who would take 'just-in-casers'
The Devil himself believes in God ......
[quote]"He performed miracles, forgave sins, preached and, most important thing of all, He rose from the dead. I decided to accept the reports made by Jewish people 2000 years ago as being reliable and trustworthy. These reports are called the New Testament."[quote]
We're back to the question "But how do you know he did all that stuff?"
What if, in a thousand years time, someone watches the Matrix, doesn't realise it was made up and goes 'woah, Neo was the saviour of mankind'?
Originally posted by jimmyb270How do you know that Napoleon was defeated near a place called Waterloo ? How do you know that Emperor Augustus ruled the Roman Empire in the same period Jezus Christ was born ?
[quote]"He performed miracles, forgave sins, preached and, most important thing of all, He rose from the dead. I decided to accept the reports made by Jewish people 2000 years ago as being reliable and trustworthy. These reports are call ...[text shortened]... it was made up and goes 'woah, Neo was the saviour of mankind'?
People who wrote down history in documents tell us the facts.
The New Testament is such a collection of documents: Four documents are about Jezus's life, death and resurrection:The Gospel.
You can also visit this site about Flavius Josephus.He is famous for being the most credible secular historian to record the existence of Jesus Christ outside of the New Testament.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/josephus.htm
Originally posted by pradtfThis is a very balanced post Pradtf.
i think this is beautifully put, ivanhoe.
religion contains some wonderous ideas that science is not interested in. there never needs to be a conflict unless we try to make religion into a scientific tool or science in to a religious crus ...[text shortened]... g both what is and what they could become.
in friendship,
prad
You write: " ... many times pseudoscience and pseudoreligion work hand in hand to oppose the search for truth be it in the moral or the scientific realm - we see this happening everytime someone provides 'scientific' or 'moral' evidence to justifiy racism or specieism ... "
Indeed this is very true .... A very difficult question arises, a question that is necessary though. What is pseudoscience and what is pseudoreligion ? A better question would be: What are the elements that constitute pseudoscience and pseudoreligion ? An answer to this question provides us the tools, the possibility to recognise any of these entities if we happen to encounter them ....
I think that some people or a lot of people need to believe theres something out there or someone, if you see what I mean.
The Romans and Greeks has lots of gods didn't they and now we all say they aren't real just what they believed in at the time I wonder if people in the future will say this about our religions now?
I do pray, it makes me feel better I'm not overly religious or anything but it makes me feel better, I don't know if God is real I hope there is a God but sometimes I have doubts as why are there so many other religions and as I said above about the Romans and Greeks.
But then science had the bir bang theory but I don't know if there ever know anything for sure I think most people must have doubts now and again about there religion but it's nioce to think theres someone there, my Mother is a non beleiver, someone mentioned in an earlier thread that why do bad things happen that's also what my mum says but then someone else said about we have choices to make, I'm not sure anyway but I really hope there is a God, I pray every night and hope, I sort of sound weird as I'm contridicting myself but I hope you understand what I mean by saying I pray even though i sometimes have doubts. Have you also heard the other theory science has something about another Big bang or something that will end the world, but then you hear all sorts of things about the end of the world, I'm sure I will be long gone before this happens though, weather it be from the polar ice caps melting or whatever.
Anyway I do celebrate Christmas, but each to there own and I hope everyone had a great christmas or if you don't celebrate it i hope you all have a great day winter :-)
Originally posted by JustSarahyou don't sound weird at all - only thoughtful.
I sort of sound weird as I'm contridicting myself
...
Anyway I do celebrate Christmas, but each to there own and I hope everyone had a great christmas or if you don't celebrate it i hope you all have a great day winter :-)
figuring things out is perhaps one of the reasons we're still here 🙂
and best wishes to you too.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by ivanhoeMy grandfather always tried using this argument against me. Did Napoleon walk on water? Did Augustus rise from the dead? No, they only did things that men are capable of, things in the realm of possiblility. The impossible belongs to the realm of fiction. The gospels can hardly be described as "history" in the true sense of the word.
How do you know that Napoleon was defeated near a place called Waterloo ? How do you know that Emperor Augustus ruled the Roman Empire in the same period Jezus Christ was born ?
People who wrote down history in documents tell us the facts.
The New Testament is such a collection of documents: Four documents are about Jezus's life, death and resurrect ...[text shortened]... esus Christ outside of the New Testament.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/josephus.htm
You state Josephus is known as the "most credible secular historian" to mention the existence of Christ. It would be interesting to be proven wrong on this point, but is Josephus not the ONLY credible secular historian to report on the existence of Christ long after Christ was dead? He could report on what others said about this man, but he has no direct evidence. To call this "history" is laughable. Almost as laughable as my chess abilities.
The writings of Josephus only serve to show that there is a good possiblility that a man maned Jesus Christ did exist. And he was a damned fine man who tried to take the ugly, wicked teachings of his time (documented in the Old Testament) and turn it into something he hoped would be loving and peaceful and much more helpful to those who practiced it. Was he god? I can't even see that this is a question worth pondering.
Originally posted by ivanhoeClaiming Roman Catholic as the most consistent and reliable interpretation is still your "opinion" and it is only human "interpretation" though. I'm sure this is the exact answer from everyone for whatever denomination they belong to.
[b]
You can find all kinds of hairraising and mindboggling interpretations of a lot of things written in the Bible among people who call themselves Christians or even among people who call themselves non-believers or agnostic or atheist. The interpretations of the Creationists of parts of the Book of Genesis are one good example of the former, Bbarrs claim a ...[text shortened]... etation you'd better check out the Roman-Catholic point of view. It's consistent and reliable.
NC
This is what John Paul II said about this in his Encyclical "Redemptor Hominis"
http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0218/__PK.HTM
Every theologian must be particularly aware of what Christ himself stated when he said: "The word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me"152. Nobody, therefore, can make of theology as it were a simple collection of his own personal ideas, but everybody must be aware of being in close union with the mission of teaching truth for which the Church is responsible.
"Why religion ?" is the name of this thread.
This is what Pope John Paul II wrote in his Encyclical "Veritatis Splendor" ["The Splendour of the Truth"]:
http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0222/__P2.HTM
1. Called to salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, "the true light that enlightens everyone" (Jn 1:9), people become "light in the Lord" and "children of light" (Eph 5:8), and are made holy by "obedience to the truth" (1 Pet 1:22).
This obedience is not always easy. As a result of that mysterious original sin, committed at the prompting of Satan, the one who is "a liar and the father of lies" (Jn 8:44), man is constantly tempted to turn his gaze away from the living and true God in order to direct it towards idols (cf. 1 Thes 1:9), exchanging "the truth about God for a lie" (Rom 1:25). Man's capacity to know the truth is also darkened, and his will to submit to it is weakened. Thus, giving himself over to relativism and scepticism (cf. Jn 18:38), he goes off in search of an illusory freedom apart from truth itself.
But no darkness of error or of sin can totally take away from man the light of God the Creator. In the depths of his heart there always remains a yearning for absolute truth and a thirst to attain full knowledge of it. This is eloquently proved by man's tireless search for knowledge in all fields. It is proved even more by his search for the meaning of life. The development of science and technology, this splendid testimony of the human capacity for understanding and for perseverance, does not free humanity from the obligation to ask the ultimate religious questions. Rather, it spurs us on to face the most painful and decisive of struggles, those of the heart and of the moral conscience.
2. No one can escape from the fundamental questions: What must I do? How do I distinguish good from evil? The answer is only possible thanks to the splendour of the truth which shines forth deep within the human spirit, as the Psalmist bears witness: "There are many who say: 'O that we might see some good! Let the light of your face shine on us, O Lord' " (Ps 4:6).