Originally posted by WillzzzAt least in this example game, I think you're trying to draw a conclusion that isn't in the database. As far as I can tell, this is a perfectly fine position for White. (I don't see how 8...b5 traps the bishop.) It appears to me that the only problem White had was that as a 1700 something rated, he got outplayed by a 2100.
Yes it isn't a disastrous move, but it certainly negates white's first move advantage. It won't automatically lose you a game, but there are far better choices to be made.
Taking the most common moves from the Games Explorer you end up here:
http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com/gamesexplorer/index.php?movelist=e2e4c7c5f1c4e7e6g1f3b8c6b1c3a7a6d2d4c5d4f3d4 ...[text shortened]... ing the bishop on b3 for the foreseeable future and in the example given for the entire game.
Originally posted by toeternitoeOne thing I saw from your movie, taking the bottom pawn first. When I looked at it, of course I saw the sequence but in my mind I took the top pawn first, thinking I would have to advance both pawns which would have taken quite a bit more moves.
When considering a trade or a combination look at what would be left ON the board NOT at what comes off!
A simple example to illustrate
White to play
[fen]8/8/1k4p1/2r3p1/4K1P1/4Q2P/8/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]
Trading queen for rook is a good idea because what's left on the board is a simple won pawn ending.
toet.
Yeah and in the other game he got outplayed by someone well over 600 points below him.
To reiterate my previous post, it's playable for white but he has thrown away his first move advantage. I would suspect black has a slight edge, it's not game wining, there are just much better moves white can play.
Originally posted by WillzzzWell, in the other game he missed a mate in one, and he had a slight edge before missing the mate. 🙂
Yeah and in the other game he got outplayed by someone well over 600 points below him.
To reiterate my previous post, it's playable for white but he has thrown away his first move advantage. I would suspect black has a slight edge, it's not game wining, there are just much better moves white can play.
Anyway, my job is done. Now we know why 2.Bc4 isn't a great move - It probably will lose a tempo. While not a disaster, a tempo is worth something, and it's better to not lose tempos if you can help it.
Originally posted by sonhouseYes,taking g5 first makes it a lot easier.Guess that's a little nuance worth knowing.
One thing I saw from your movie, taking the bottom pawn first. When I looked at it, of course I saw the sequence but in my mind I took the top pawn first, thinking I would have to advance both pawns which would have taken quite a bit more moves.
But either capture wins easily enough,of course.
toet.
Originally posted by Mad RookYou could say white sacs a tempo for not having to memorise (or look up) 25 moves of theory,and get into more uncharted territory where the best man wins.
Well, in the other game he missed a mate in one, and he had a slight edge before missing the mate. 🙂
Anyway, my job is done. Now we know why 2.Bc4 isn't a great move - It probably will lose a tempo. While not a disaster, a tempo is worth something, and it's better to not lose tempos if you can help it.
That is assuming the position is indeed playable for white.
toet.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Bishops opening.
Morphy Alekhine, Spielmann, Tartakower, Capablanca, Kasparov, Anand, Larsen,
Bronstein, Nunn.....amongst others have all banged it out.
Some GM's earn their living playing this opening Nikola Mitkov for one.
It is played to avoid the Petrof and the Latvian. 🙁
Originally posted by greenpawn34So in this variation, the black king is way out in left field, you can push the pawns with no opposition. Have a queen🙂
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Bishops opening.
Morphy Alekhine, Spielmann, Tartakower, Capablanca, Kasparov, Anand, Larsen,
Bronstein, Nunn.....amongst others have all banged it out.
Some GM's earn their living playing this opening Nikola Mitkov for one.
It is played to avoid the Petrof and the Latvian. 🙁
[pgn]
[FEN "8/8/1k4p ...[text shortened]...
--------------}
1. Qb3+ Ka5 2. Qe6 Kb5 3. Qxg6 Rc4+ 4. Ke5 Rc5+ 5. Kf6 Rc6+ 6. Kxg5[/pgn]
Ah. I saw 2. Bc4 and jumped in.
2.Bc4 v the Sicilian should not be taken too lightly.
It's second choice on the 1400 DB.
I've seen some nice games with it at the under 1600 level.
Down there of course the Sicilain is not fully understood and on the DB
you see 216 times Black has played 2...e5 which kind of makes
2,Bc4 very good.
But that DB does not show games under 10-12 moves.
On the 1400 DB I have built up 2.Bc4 e5 has been seen over 500 times.
This is a common coaches dilemna, you advise against playing a certain
opening move and yet they keep winning with it.
One lad in Bates kept playing 2.Qh5 against everything, I advised it was
not the best move and v a good a player and it will rebound.
But he kept winning with it.
In the end I decided he's enjoying himself, so I left him to it.
Here is a 2.Bc4 e5.
Black chases the c4 Bishop, losses a piece and gives up. But.....
...if we look at the final position. add the moves.
1... cxb4 2. cxb4 Nc6 3. dxc6 Bxc6
And there is a skewer on the h1 Rook.
Swapping off into a won ending
I know the trading down example was most likely plucked out the air
but you should only consider trading down when you have squeezed
every advantage out of a position.
The line I gave White can pick up both Black pawns and
then swap the Rook with the Queen.
As someone pointed out in the first variation after QxR one slack move (2.Ke3) draws.
Teach them to be merciless and accurate. Not to give chances.