Only Chess
27 Dec 05
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by RagnorakIn my last remaining game in the tourney Iotapianus Grouped Random : Rnd. 1, my opponent's novelty came on move 17. His move, however, was suggested in some annotations in an e-text among my library.
Databases are collections of past games. Normally, you would be able to refer to a database in your active game upto maybe move 10 (that would be pretty much as far as you'd be able to go, although there are a few cases with database use going as far as move 20 maybe, although that's very rare). Mostly, databases would only be used for 5-7 moves, IMO.
Note. As the game is still in progress, I won't give the game number.
I often find novelties at move 10-15 in my games both OTB and in correspondence play. Against Chessmaster, on the other hand, games usually deviate from the opening book at move 5-7. Chessmaster's opening book is terribly limited, and the actual novelty is often several moves later than CM claims.
30 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by RagnorakSo just to clarify, are you saying it's ok to copy moves from deatabases up to around move 10-20?
Databases are collections of past games. Normally, you would be able to refer to a database in your active game upto maybe move 10 (that would be pretty much as far as you'd be able to go, although there are a few cases with database use going as far as move 20 maybe, although that's very rare). Mostly, databases would only be used for 5-7 moves, IMO. was pathetic, do you not think it would be fair to say that I said you were pathetic?
D
I still wouldn't but I guess that it is a personal thing; when I first played chess only large companies had computers so I learnt to play alone.
Just to reiterate, I didn't say any person was pathetic.
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveIn a correspondence game, I've followed a book as deeply as move 22 or 23. I recall that I resigned that game (a sharp variation of the Marshall Attack) on move 29. My opponent found an improvement over the move Michael Adams played against Peter Leko, or I failed to handle his novelty as well as Leko might have.
So just to clarify, are you saying it's ok to copy moves from deatabases up to around move 10-20?
31 Dec 05
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveGM's memorize opeing moves in order to save time at the beginning of the game. I don't understand why their is a difference between that and using a database because we are not pros and don't have the time or the necessity to memorize them?
What's the point in playing any type of chess if you are copying moves from a database?
Regardless of "rules" that people hide behind to justify it it is pathetic in my opinion.
Opening theory has increased since the beginning of the game and its going to continue to do so, however frankly most databases are done before move 10. The game is just too complex for that and not nearly enough games are in any database to change that for years.
And before someone jumps on the memorization thing, GMs understand fully what they are memorizing and they know what to do when it plays out. Normally players should not be memorizing opening lines that they don't understand. But playing with a database at the beginning of a game helps in furthering your understanding of the game...particularly if you are sure you understand what the database has revealed to you about what other players do. It is incumbant upon the user to seek to understand why GM X rated 2609 played what he did!
31 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by dottewellMy memory failed me. The game we were following was Ivanchuk-Short 1995. My opponent deviated on move 23, but we transposed back into the game until my novelty on move 25. White won both games. Here's mine:
Surely the former...
[Event "m1097597509"]
[Site "net-chess.com"]
[Date "2005.01.18"]
[Round "1"]
[White "bret"]
[Black "Wulebgr"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C89"]
[WhiteElo "2485"]
[BlackElo "2312"]
[PlyCount "69"]
[EventDate "2004.09.16"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 O-O 8. c3
d5 9. exd5 Nxd5 10. Nxe5 Nxe5 11. Rxe5 c6 12. Re1 Bd6 13. d4 Qh4 14. g3 Qh3 15.
Be3 Bg4 16. Qd3 Rae8 17. Nd2 Re6 18. a4 bxa4 19. Rxa4 f5 20. Qf1 Qh5 21. Rxa6
f4 22. Bxf4 Bh3 23. Rxc6 Bxf1 24. Rxe6 Bxf4 25. Nxf1 Bb8 26. f4 Kh8 27. Rc5 Qf5
28. Bxd5 Qg4 29. Ne3 Qe2 30. b4 g5 31. f5 h5 32. Nf1 Qg4 33. Bc4 h4 34. Ne3 Qf3
35. Rcc6 1-0
03 Jan 06
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveOk, picture this scenario:
So just to clarify, are you saying it's ok to copy moves from deatabases up to around move 10-20?
I still wouldn't but I guess that it is a personal thing; when I first played chess only large companies had computers so I learnt to play alone.
Just to reiterate, I didn't say any [b]person was pathetic.[/b]
You play against a strong player where by you follow a database that has lots of won games on your side. Your opponent realises this and makes a very unusual move that throws you off (and takes you out of your database). You do not know why the players in the database made the moves so what do you do then? Suddenly you following the database has become a disadvantage to yourself because you do not know chess strategy well enough to take advantage of your current position. It isn't blindly coping moves, you have to understand strategy as well.
I know, because I have been crushed many times by following database moves and not understanding to a deep enough level. 😕
03 Jan 06
Originally posted by lauseyExcellent point. It reiterates what I keep trying to say: database use is an element of chess skill, not a substitute.
Ok, picture this scenario:
You play against a strong player where by you follow a database that has lots of won games on your side. Your opponent realises this and makes a very unusual move that throws you off (and takes you out of your database). You do not know why the players in the database made the moves so what do you do then? Suddenly you following ...[text shortened]... rushed many times by following database moves and not understanding to a deep enough level. 😕
03 Jan 06
CHEATING? UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!! I think before you come into a game of online chess, ya got to remember, you are not just playing a screen, but you are playing with someone near or the other side of the country. Alot of people WILL NOT tollerate cheating when it come to chess. I for one WON'T!!! Before a person gets to their keyboard for chess, they better know their peices, what they can do, and the 'basics' of the game. Once you are 'one' with the game, and you feel ready to challenge someone else, then you can try the online battles. This is where the games get interesting.
If you agree, please feel free to e-mail me...UnisausS1
03 Jan 06
Originally posted by UnisausS1Thanks for reading the thread.
CHEATING? UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!! I think before you come into a game of online chess, ya got to remember, you are not just playing a screen, but you are playing with someone near or the other side of the country. Alot of people WILL NOT tollerate cheating when it come to chess. I for one WON'T!!! Before a person gets to their keyboard for chess, they ...[text shortened]... the games get interesting.
If you agree, please feel free to e-mail me...UnisausS1
03 Jan 06
Originally posted by UnisausS1Welcome to the internet............
CHEATING? UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!! I think before you come into a game of online chess, ya got to remember, you are not just playing a screen, but you are playing with someone near or the other side of the country.
03 Jan 06
Originally posted by RagnorakSo much pretentiousness and snobbery!
That would be because you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Its unfortunate, but ignorance can often lead to people having strong emotions about something, when in reality they are completely clueless about whats going on.
D
Why is everyone having a go at the opener of this thread? The question was asked in a civil manner and, hey presto, some geezer with strong emotions straight away blasted him. The continued strong emotions against him, and those that wish to hear his viewpoint, suggests that the pro-database users are ignorant!
Before I, too, get blasted for making a simple observation, let me summarise what has happened so far:
- The word 'cheat' has caused blood to boil.
- Correspondence chess has certain rules - OTB players need to read up on them. Maybe these changes should be listed in the FAQ.
- Correspondence chess is not for the impatient.
Come on all, calm down and enjoy yourselves 🙄