12 Jul 07
14 edits
You can look at my games, but my major recommendation is against the advance, play 3...c5. It works well and gives black better chances then moving the bishop.
Also, try to trade the light bishop for a Knight, and a Knight for white's dark bishop.
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5
4.dxc5 e6 and play like a French
4.c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 (5. Bb5 cxd5 6.cxd4 a6 7. BxN+ bxB and now black can play ...c5 yet another time 😀) Bg4! 6. dxc5 (6. Be2 is meager and black can just develop with e6, QB6 Nd7-Nf5 [usually in that order] and/or exchange on f3) e6 and black is more then fine.
Notice that ...Bxc5 is available, and after ...BxN QxB black can play ...Nxe5. White cannot defend both these pawns.
13 Jul 07
Originally posted by Fat LadyNeil McDonald in Starting out: Dutch Defence suggests after
I think White can do better than that:
1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.Bg3 Bg7 5.e4 and if 5. ... f4 then 6.Bxf4 gxf4 7.Qh5+ Kf8 8.Qf5+ Ke8 9.Be2 and I think White gets the piece back with a much superior position.
In my opinion Black's position after move 4 is overextended and a simple plan for White is to castle queenside and open up the kingside.
1.d4...f5
2.Bg5...h6
3.Bh4...g5
4.Bg3
then black should continue
4...Nf6
(not the greedy 4...f4? leading to disaster)
5.e4...f4!
6.e5...e6
or
5.e3...d6
Giving black a good game
15 Jul 07
Originally posted by SquelchbelchI tend to agree with Fat Lady, I don't like weakening black's kingside further with h6 and g5. I think playing it like this Game 2953488 is better - which is also recommended in the McDonald book.
Neil McDonald in Starting out: Dutch Defence suggests after
1.d4...f5
2.Bg5...h6
3.Bh4...g5
4.Bg3
then black should continue
4...Nf6
(not the greedy 4...f4? leading to disaster)
5.e4...f4!
6.e5...e6
or
5.e3...d6
Giving black a good game
15 Jul 07
3 edits
Originally posted by DeepThoughtBut he goes on to point-out that white can open the center with:
I tend to agree with Fat Lady, I don't like weakening black's kingside further with h6 and g5. I think playing it like this Game 2953488 is better - which is also recommended in the McDonald book.
3.Nd2...Bg7
4.e4...fxe4
5.Nxe4
& I guess a likely line might be:
5...d5 the knight should be attacked as it's a monster on e4. Black also opens lines for light-square B
6.Nc3...Nc6 attacking d4 twice with Bg7
7.Nf3...Nf6 un-pinning the e7 pin against Q
8.Bb5 absolute pin on Nc6 & allows 0-0 8...Qd6 activating Q , defending Nc6 without doubled c-pawns & doesn't tie down Bc8 to unpinning
9.0-0...0-0
10.Re1
black to move
I don't see any way for black to prevent white opening up the center, then dominating it early on with Re1.
Also, black may well end up playing ...h6 & ...g5 forcing the B back to g3 anyway I think.
15 Jul 07
Originally posted by SquelchbelchNot 7. Nf3 you've got pressure along the long diagonal and the knight gets in the way there - 7. Nh3 and Nf7, which forces white to relocate the bishop and establishes a firm grip on e5. The pin on e7 isn't particularly important at the moment and if you are desperate to break it you can plonk the queen on d6.
But he goes on to point-out that white can open the center with:
[b]3.Nd2...Bg7
4.e4...fxe4
5.Nxe4
& I guess a likely line might be:
5...d5 the knight should be attacked as it's a monster on e4. Black also opens lines for light-square B
6.Nc3...Nc6 attacking d4 twice with Bg7
7.Nf3...Nf6 un-pinning the e7 pin agains ...[text shortened]... .
Also, black may well end up playing ...h6 & ...g5 forcing the B back to g3 anyway I think.[/b]
17 Jul 07
I used to really play the Dutch a lot, but when playing against higher rated opponents (2000+) I lost a number of games. So I'm looking into using different variations or another opening.
The Stonewall line with an early Bf4 is quite difficult to play against and the gambit variations can be tricky as well. I lost a quite interesting game with a sideline 1.d4 f5 2. e4 fe4x 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nc6 5. d5 Ne5 6. Qe2.
17 Jul 07
Originally posted by drexciya3.Nf3?? 🙄
I used to really play the Dutch a lot, but when playing against higher rated opponents (2000+) I lost a number of games. So I'm looking into using different variations or another opening.
The Stonewall line with an early Bf4 is quite difficult to play against and the gambit variations can be tricky as well. I lost a quite interesting game with a sideline 1.d4 f5 2. e4 fe4x 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nc6 5. d5 Ne5 6. Qe2.
18 Jul 07
Originally posted by DeepThoughtthink of it as free pawn pushes to attack the white king. I'm always very pleased when people give me free tempi for the attack I'm going to launch anyway. the white counterplay is on the queenside, and if he wants to waste time on the kingside, all the better for me.
I tend to agree with Fat Lady, I don't like weakening black's kingside further with h6 and g5.
18 Jul 07
Originally posted by wormwoodI think that makes sence... if white wanted to attack the kingside, he'd've played 1.e4
think of it as free pawn pushes to attack the white king. I'm always very pleased when people give me free tempi for the attack I'm going to launch anyway. the white counterplay is on the queenside, and if he wants to waste time on the kingside, all the better for me.
18 Jul 07
Originally posted by ChessJesterNot entirely, most of the white plans against the Dutch involve preparing e4 and the Bg5 line is no different. You can get away with that kind of thing in the Stonewall because the center is locked up, but here I'd regard it as risky. Also until white has played c4 it's not clear that you're going to get a queenside attack.
I think that makes sence... if white wanted to attack the kingside, he'd've played 1.e4
At least here you tend not to get the main lines anyway, the most common thing I see is for white to play the following moves in some order d4, c4, e3, Nf3, Nc3, Bf4 and castle kingside. Essentially leaving control of e4 to black and just getting on with a reasonably sensible developmental plan - which is a right old pain as it's not critical and there's barely any theory on it so I end up having to think for myself right from the start 🙁.
The most interesting variation on this theme I've seen recently came from Procyk in this game Game 3399926, with f3 thrown into the mix; although I mishandled it quite badly early on.