23 Dec 09
Originally posted by philidor positionYeah I understood what you ment, and in most positions I agree, but here I'm not sure though, the extra-rook on the queenside is going to play some nice role there supporting the pawns. But then again maybe it's too commital. nah forget it...
I tried to explain that in my previous post. the a1 rook doesn't seem to be doing much on the a file.
24 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Nowakowskithis line
11... Ng4 12. Bf4 d6 13. h3 Nge5 14. a3 Nxf3+ 15. Bxf3 Nd4 16. Bd1
[fen]r3k2r/1bq1bpp1/pp1pp2p/2p5/2PnPB2/P1NP2PP/1P1Q1P2/RR1B2K1 b kq - 2 16 [/fen]
Again, I still don't mind that rook being on b1. There isn't going
to be an easy refutation to Rb1. For black to create any kind of
pressure that relocates the b1 rook, black will need to spend a vast ...[text shortened]... d up his pawn structure
gained space and strengthened his center upon relocation of the rook.
11... Ng4 12. Bf4 d6 13. h3 Nge5 14. a3 Nxf3+ 15. Bxf3 Nd4 16. Bd1, but castling must wait. Trying various lines, I found black running into some problems, principally due the squares b5 and a4, as white can push a4 even when black plays b5. UntilI found,
16....Bc6! (important to guard b5 and to not allow a4 by white) 17.b4 e5 18.Be3 b5 19.bxc5 dxc5 20.cxb5 Nxb5 21.Nd5 Bxd5 22.exd5 O-O 23.Bf3 Rab8 Black has equality.
Before that I looked at 16...a5 combined with a later ...Bc6 for the same reasons.
16....a5 17.b4 axb4 18.axb4 O-O 19.Be3 Bc6 20.bxc5 dxc5 I believe black is fully equal here.
but this,
16....a5 17.b4 axb4 18.axb4 O-O 19.b5 Can white take advantage of that structure? I don't know, but it makes me uncomfortable.
So, I prefer the idea with 16....Bc6
24 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by RegicidalYes, I think black can obtain equality several ways, but thats the nature of the game.
this line
11... Ng4 12. Bf4 d6 13. h3 Nge5 14. a3 Nxf3+ 15. Bxf3 Nd4 16. Bd1, but castling must wait. Trying various lines, I found black running into some problems, principally due the squares b5 and a4, as white can push a4 even when black plays b5. UntilI found,
16....Bc6! (important to guard b5 and to not allow a4 by white) 17.b4 e5 18.Be3 b5 19.bx ...[text shortened]... structure? I don't know, but it makes me uncomfortable.
So, I prefer the idea with 16....Bc6
I think Rb1 is aggressive looking, and certainly has several underlying elements which
help opponents to make very small mistakes. 🙂
I don't know that I'd play Rfb1 in one of my games, but from the first post in this thread,
I tried to meet the guidelines set forth. I thought Rfb1 fit best in trying to force a more
"known" endgame. Just had a solid idea, solid undertone, and really nothing sharp or
simple to refute it. Definitely gutsy; but could easily hamper black greatly if a small slip
is made while trying to obtain equality.
ADD:Its a very interesting position. If anybody is interested in some exploration
into it, I'd be willing to take a few unrated setup games and play through some
ideas.
-GIN
24 Dec 09
Originally posted by RegicidalThis position makes me sad 🙁 Black's knight is just too strong, it doesn't really matter what white plays after that, Black has a nice outpost and a space advantage. In my opinion not only does black equalize but he gets a better position as well.
this line
11... Ng4 12. Bf4 d6 13. h3 Nge5 14. a3 Nxf3+ 15. Bxf3 Nd4 16. Bd1, but castling must wait. Trying various lines, I found black running into some problems, principally due the squares b5 and a4, as white can push a4 even when black plays b5. UntilI found,
16....Bc6! (important to guard b5 and to not allow a4 by white) 17.b4 e5 18.Be3 b5 19.bx ...[text shortened]... structure? I don't know, but it makes me uncomfortable.
So, I prefer the idea with 16....Bc6
So instead I sugest playing 11.h3 0-0 12.Ne1 d6 13.f4, and we reach this position:
Here what do you think black will play?
27 Dec 09
2 edits
Originally posted by orion25well,
This position makes me sad 🙁 Black's knight is just too strong, it doesn't really matter what white plays after that, Black has a nice outpost and a space advantage. In my opinion not only does black equalize but he gets a better position as well.
[fen]r3k2r/1bq1bpp1/pp1pp2p/2p5/2PnPB2/P1NP2PP/1P1Q1P2/RR1B2K1 b kq - 0 16[/fen]
So instead I sugest play ...[text shortened]... /2p5/2P1PP2/2NPB1PP/PP1Q2B1/R3NRK1 b - - 0 13[/fen]
Here what do you think black will play?
I hate to say it...but I disagree... again.
I think if 13...Nd4 14. Nf3 and white is OK. - Maybe slightly better!
So black shouldn't aim for these types of things:
Instead
I once again focus on the same place for black. In this position
The b file can easily become a focal point. Black does not want
to place a piece on the void of d4. White leads in development on
this square! Black wants to be patient here. White has overprotected
the d4 square, but black may be OK with possibilities on the
b and d files. The Knight is perfect where it is! The rooks belong
here! So strive for this! Keep placing pressure on both d4 and b4!
Rab8 - Rfd8
Now with this in mind, Remember the ideas at play, and just a tip...
Reorganizing your bishop on a8 here really loads the guns! - Keep
Pushing on those square gents!
-GIN
27 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Regicidalonce black has played e5 white can get in a Nd5. For example, 17. b4 e5 18. Be3 b5 19. Nd5
[b]this line
11... Ng4 12. Bf4 d6 13. h3 Nge5 14. a3 Nxf3+ 15. Bxf3 Nd4 16. Bd1, but castling must wait. Trying various lines, I found black running into some problems, principally due the squares b5 and a4, as white can push a4 even when black plays b5. UntilI found,
16....Bc6! (important to guard b5 and to not allow a4 by white) 17.b4 e5 18.Be3 b5 19.bx ...[text shortened]
Black now has to watch out for possible forks with the close knight. Once the black knight has been exchanged off the white knight will never need to leave that outpost. Also, black must pay attention to his b pawn since it is the only thing preventing a bishop check from a4. Also, since black has not castled, more of his pieces are hanging and possibly vulnerable to tactics during the simplifications on the queen side.
What do you think?
27 Dec 09
Originally posted by dzhafnerBlack has to be careful but he still seems ok.
once black has played e5 white can get in a Nd5. For example, 17. b4 e5 18. Be3 b5 19. Nd5
Black now has to watch out for possible forks with the close knight. Once the black knight has been exchanged off the white knight will never need to leave that outpost. Also, black must pay attention to his b pawn since it is the only thing preventing a bishop ...[text shortened]... ssibly vulnerable to tactics during the simplifications on the queen side.
What do you think?
19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 O-O 21.bxc5 Qxc5 22.Rb4 Rab8 23.Bxd4 exd4
or
22.Qb4 Rfb8 23.Bxd4 Qxd4
28 Dec 09
Hi.
I would rather ask, How can you plan, to go in a favorable endgame, with less material then your opponent, from the middlegame. ? You know the Benko gambit, it the only gambit, where , you got to play for endgame, as soon as the middlegame or even, the opening. so you got to be very precise, in your calculation, because, you will have a pawn down, even in your game, before your win it.
You, see, what, in an engame, can really compensate a material lost?
just evaluating pawn structure are hard, especially, when both camp have many weakness...
So, how do we do this.
Since for now, material is equal....
But remove a pawn to white, and try to play for a better endgame. .
28 Dec 09
Originally posted by NowakowskiI'm not sure you understood what I meant. I was referring to the first diagram In my post, and then I suggested instead white should aim for the second diagram, and asked your opinion. Or maybe its I who didn't understand your reply?
well,
I hate to say it...but I disagree... again.
I think if 13...Nd4 14. Nf3 and white is OK. - Maybe slightly better!
So black shouldn't aim for these types of things:
[fen]r4rk1/1bq1bpp1/pp1ppn1p/2p5/2PnPP2/2NPBNPP/PP1Q2B1/R4RK1 b - - 2 14 [/fen]
[b]Instead
I once again focus on the same place for black. In this position
The ...[text shortened]...
[fen]br1r2k1/2q1bpp1/ppnppn1p/2p5/2P1PP2/2NPB1PP/PP1Q2B1/R3NRK1 w - - 1 13 [/fen]
-GIN[/b]
28 Dec 09
6 edits
Originally posted by orion25Well, perhaps we're both confused. My analysis was pertaining to the bottom diagram.
I'm not sure you understood what I meant. I was referring to the first diagram In my post, and then I suggested instead white should aim for the second diagram, and asked your opinion. Or maybe its I who didn't understand your reply?
However, its useful in both cases. The general sense of the position doesn't change too
drastically, and thus blacks replies should be similar. I personally think the b file is of
enormous value in this position. I think white must strengthen his holding there.
16. ... O-O followed by b4 and Rb8 later
NOT17. Ne2
(17. b4 Rab8 18. Kg2 (18. f3 18. .. f5 19. Kf2 runs hard into f5
(18. f3 18. .. f5 When 19. Kf2 - Where g5! looks scary
Or if bxc5
(19.
bxc5 bxc5 20. Na4 fxe4 is no good
(20. .. fxe4) 21. dxe4 g5 22. Be3 Nxf3+)) breaks down badly
When (18. .. f5 19. bxc5 Qxc5)
but not 19. f3 Bf6 20. bxc5 bxc5 21. h4 21. g5 22. Be3 and can be followed by Be5!
Whereas Rb2 seems more pointed, and keeps control (18. Rb2)
18. ... Ba8 19. Rab1 Bf6
-GIN