Fischer v Karpov

Originally posted by EdTrice
OK, my turn to the play the "negative implication game". To make it easier for you, just refute these statements "by number" in your replies.

1. If there is no real wordlwide interest in Gothic Chess, why a complete page in German?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Chess

2. If there is no real wordlwide interest in Gothic Chess, why were there pro ...[text shortened]... 2006/annex48.pdf+Gothic+Chess&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=78

I think I'll stop there for now.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/14447

3 users owning it. Chess has over 3000 ratings, to contrast things.

Here are some of my thoughts on your questions. I haven't bothered answering the ones about foreign Wikipedia sites or message boards as I cannot read them.

2) Some computer programmers like this sort of thing. It's pointless trying to write the best chess program in the world because there's too many very strong commercial programs, so why not choose a less popular game, like Gothic Chess or Fischer Random Chess (http://www.xs4all.nl/~rpijl/html/20051.html - 19 entries in 2005).

4) 195 of the games involved "GothicInventor" (aka Ed Trice). There were 151 unique players (including guest and guest2), and without checking carefully I'd say that a core of about 15 people played 90% of the games.

This is fine and dandy for you people who like to play Gothic Chess, but it doesn't make it the global phenomenon you are trying to sell it as.

5) Because _you_ have a strong interest in Gothic Chess and _you_ wrote the program.

6) Perhaps you told him that there had been several very successful Gothic Chess tournaments with thousands of participants.

7) Perhaps you told Fischer or his representatives that there had been several very successful Gothic Chess tournaments with thousands of participants. Or perhaps the prize money you mentioned interested him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't actually meet Fischer did you, let alone get his signature on any match agreement?

8) Karpov would doubtless play 12 games of any type whatsoever if he were to be promised $4,000,000 even if he loses.

9) Because she is the reserve if Fischer will not play in the match against Karpov. Presumably this means that she has been promised $4,000,000 even if she loses the match.

10) Because it's a journal about games, and Gothic Chess is a game. I'm sure they were delighted to have a paper by you submitted to them, just as they were to receive one about the game "Tigers and Goats" for the next issue.

12) Glicko is making his system look as important as possible by listing some of the organisations which have adopted his formulae:

"... and variations of the Glicko system have been adapted for several commercial internet gaming organizations such as ChronX, Case's Ladder, and the Gothic Chess Association."

Originally posted by Fat Lady

10) Because it's a journal about games, and Gothic Chess is a game. I'm sure they were delighted to have a paper by you submitted to them, just as they were to receive one about the game "Tigers and Goats" for the next issue.



I challenge you to publish ANY article for the ICGA. Even write about something in chess if you want. You have 12 calendar months to get it published. Let me know when it comes out.

Perhaps now you will see my point.

I've never denied that you have put a lot of time and effort into marketing Gothic Chess.

What I do question is the current popularity of Gothic Chess.

Originally posted by Fat Lady
I've never denied that you have put a lot of time and effort into marketing Gothic Chess.

What I do question is the current popularity of Gothic Chess.

Number of sales of the chess set is certainly one valid way of measuring the popularity of Gothic Chess. Unfortunately I don't believe your figures and I don't suppose there's any way of verifying them. And no, I don't want to trust your word.

The number of players and games being played online is another way of measuring the popularity of Gothic Chess. These aren't too bad, maybe fifteen serious players, another couple of hundred who have tried it once or twice, and a couple of thousand games played in total.

Number of people willing to pay $100 to enter a real over the board tournament is, in my mind, an excellent way of measuring the popularity of Gothic Chess, and you are insisting that you have had well over a thousand people entering from 2003 to 2005 (and almost a thousand in 2002).

Here it is in your own words on page five of this thread:

(Start of Ed Trice quote)
The 2002 college scholarship event was just for 1 year's tuition. We had 895 participants.

In 2003 we had 1640.

In 2004, over 2000.

In 2005 we offered 2 years' tuition, and it was a fiasco, with over 4000 registrations, maybe 60% of the registrations coming within 1 month of the event, and people showing up "at the door" even though radio ads were mentioning the tournament was, in fact, closed.

There were problems turning people away, let's leave it at that.
(End of Ed Trice quote)

If I thought this was true I would wholeheartedly agree that Gothic Chess is the next Big Thing.

But it's not true, is it Ed?

One of the things that points towards gothic chess not being too popular is the online gothic server...

Say you have a competition coming up and you want to take names and kick ar**.....what do you do? Study, study, study, play, play, play, since gothic chess doesnt have any theory books(as far as I know) the only way to prepare for a compeition is through play. Now naturally you will want strong oppositon.....we all know what its like when our girlfriends or boyfriends say lets play a game of chess.....so they must turn to the online community for their games, the only place I could find to play gothic chess online was at Ed's site.....how many people do you think there are normally logged in practicing gothic chess for all these mass compeitions? Well the highest iv seen so far has been 5. Now really if you are getting 1000+ dedicated players at each tournament dont you think there might be more than 5 people logged into the gothic chess online rooms.........the fact that the online server only has a max of 12 tables speaks volumes about how many peak people they expect to get.

The line about Gothic Chess having 20,000 members 1/3 of the USCF or something like that......do these members subscribe or is it just anyone whos ever played the game? The online chess communities for America social and more pro aimed both have lots of people....think about yahoo,pogo etc chess rooms always being highly populated and ICC gets 4000-5000 people at its peak each day so you would expect gothic chess which claims to get 4000 people at a single compeition! to see maybe 1000 players daily.....

Btw there is at least one player who uses the gothic chess site to practice for compeitions...Ed is the highest rated there.

Originally posted by Fat Lady
Number of sales of the chess set is certainly one valid way of measuring the popularity of Gothic Chess. Unfortunately I don't believe your figures and I don't suppose there's any way of verifying them. And no, I don't want to trust your word.

The number of players and games being played online is another way of measuring the popularity of Gothic Chess. ...[text shortened]... rtedly agree that Gothic Chess is the next Big Thing.

But it's not true, is it Ed?

wow, talk about coming down on freedom of speech and public debate............scary! 😛

I mean come on if you put up a picture of yourself and Fischer sitting over tea having a chat then the skepticism would be much less, probably nil. However you do nothing to lessen any skepticism and then threaten legal proceedings when people question what you claim.

Originally posted by Fat Lady
The number of players and games being played online is another way of measuring the popularity of Gothic Chess. These aren't too bad, maybe fifteen serious players, another couple of hundred who have tried it once or twice, and a couple of thousand games played in total.

Originally posted by EdTrice
Could "FatLady" on here be "Sebastian" from GothicChessLive.com?

http://www.gothicchesslive.com/one-players-games.php?id=696

If so, looks like he just got whipped twice by Cartaphilus.

[b]
...
[cartaphilus]Where are you from?
[sebastian]oxford UK and you
...


http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.php?gameid=1922
sebastian - Car ...[text shortened]... h2 Cxf4 15.Ad4 Cxd4 16.Qxd4 Qxd4 17.Cf3 Qj4+ 18.Ki1 g6 19.d6 Be5+ 20.Cxe5 Qf4+ white resigns[/b]

Who won those tournaments for tuition? Any news stories we can link to? Crosstables online, pictures of winners on your website? Pictures of a big tournament room with a couple thousand people in it?

You really wouldn't be having people ask these questions if there was less Supermodels and more tournament stuff on your site. It looks like a good game, but man, the way you promote it is like some mezmerizing train wreck.

By the way, have you thought about piggybacking an event at the National Open or something? Make a decent prizefund and you could be putting pics of GMs playing your game all over your site.

Originally posted by wargamer66
Who won those tournaments for tuition? Any news stories we can link to? Crosstables online, pictures of winners on your website? Pictures of a big tournament room with a couple thousand people in it?

You really wouldn't be having people ask these questions if there was less Supermodels and more tournament stuff on your site. It looks like a good ...[text shortened]... e a decent prizefund and you could be putting pics of GMs playing your game all over your site.

Originally posted by tmetzler
Agreed,

Ed, If these really did take place. Can you post the link to at least one 3rd party news article regarding them? I can't believe that such large real in-person tournaments would have taken place completely under the nose of journalists.