A friend of my family once played Keene (Keene's the guy who annotated this game we're discussing, just in case you'd forgotten). This was a good 20 years ago now, though. It came to the End Game, and my friend offered him a draw, to which Keene accepted gratefully. My friend was happy to have walked away againt a Grand master to boast about a draw. He looked at the game afterwards and realised his king was better placed to take the pawns towards a winning game *no wonder Keene was so eager to take the draw, lol*.
Anyway, I gave this move (pawn to g4) to this friend, and he said that it is not really the best move. HOWEVER, because it isn't the best opening, most players (including Grand Masters) don't really study it, and thus don't know how to play against it. For this reason then it's not entirely a hopeless move, as long as the one playing knows how to use it to his advantage.
Hope that helps with any prospective interst in the move.
Regards, PA
Originally posted by ParanoidAndroidI agree
A friend of my family once played Keene (Keene's the guy who annotated this game we're discussing, just in case you'd forgotten). This was a good 20 years ago now, though. It came to the End Game, and my friend offered him a draw, to which Keene accepted gratefully. My friend was happy to have walked away againt a Grand master to boast about a dr ...[text shortened]... is advantage.
Hope that helps with any prospective interst in the move.
Regards, PA
Originally posted by HomerJSimpsonHi there
I just read an annotated grubenstein game, and Grandmaster Keene says, "G4 is the worst possible move you can start out with, even worse than f3 and h4"
I was wondering if the rest of you concur about that sentiment or have other ideas.
Here's the link to the game, he beat the author of, "The Killer Grob":
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1026281
I think 1.g4 and 1.b4 both have a positional basis, which is quite easy to understand.
1.g4 prepares immediately to fianchetto the bishop to g2, where it is excerting influence on the diagonal a8-h1. Later this pressure can be increased by white playing g4-g5. Also g4-g5 can help in k-side attacks. But the positional motivation would be drive off a knight from f6 and increase the pressure excerted on the d5 square. Also in support of this, White might play c4 later to increase the grip on d5.
The idea occurs in other opening systems in reverse, for example in the Benoni defence, black tries to increase control of the d4 square sometimes. Black usually has pawns on c5,d6,e7. Fischer against spassky for example played a Benoni, and later accepted doubled h pawns on the k-side which helped his grip of the e5 square.
Increasing pressure on centre squares through flank pawn moves or even accepting doubled pawns, is quite advanced positional play, and g4 as a move in general is popping up more and more with the positional motivation of simply increasing the pressure on d5, and e4 and not just a crude attacking move. For example in some QGD systems, Speelman has innovated with g4 out of nowhere, which not only sometimes helps a g-file attack, but also undermines the knight on f6 which in turn increases pressure on d5.
I had a game with IM Basman which I held a draw, but he was clearly better out of the opening:-
http://www.chessclub.demon.co.uk/Events/Event_reports/sutton98/tryf1.htm
From the same logical perspective, the move 1.b4 is also positionally motivated. Again it supports the fianchetto of bishop, and again, the advancing pawn move b4-b5 would intensify often pressure on a central key square - e5. Because a knight on c6 would often be supporting e5.
So all in all, these flank openings are not to be underestimated.
Best wishes
Tryfon
Originally posted by Dragon FireAnd another
Whats this I see an Open Invite "Dragon Fire is yellow"
I'll show you I ain't yellow - have a Grob (Game 3091829) and we will see if this is the worst opening ever!
and here is an indication of the Grobs strength (Game 3092030) and another (Game 3092029)
Game 3119448
another sad end for white:
Game 2896687
Thats why you dont play the grob people, its just not a very good opening, probably one if not thee worst opening there is, and he will see another loss here:
Game 3091829
I really hope this opening has been put to rest
Originally posted by Diet Cokesorry ass? If you dont stop messing with me your gonna end up worse than DF
1. Both of you were to pansy to play 1..d5 2. Bxg4
2. I expect Dragon would lose to Korch normally anyway. 2000 or not!
3. Don't post games in progress here hoping for me to save your sorry ass!😉
Now listen all you sad gits! We can all play
1. e4 .. e5;
2. Nf3 .. Nc6;
3. Bc4 .. , etc
forever.
and after a decade of it we will die of boredom
The Grob is not intended to be the best opening it is intended to be a fun opening that can get you some enjoyable and different games and the occasional surprise win against an unprepared opponent.
Of course there are all sorts of weaknesses in Homers position but at the risk of giving my winning plan away I couldn't possibly comment. I will, however, say that at the current moment I do not feel in grave danger of actually losing. 🙂
Originally posted by Dragon FireYou have quite a few issues with your position as well, and Ive commented on each and everyone of your glaring weaknesses, in our in game comments. I would not even consider accepting a draw at this point, lets put it that way.
Now listen all you sad gits! We can all play
1. e4 .. e5;
2. Nf3 .. Nc6;
3. Bc4 .. , etc
forever.
[b]and after a decade of it we will die of boredom
The Grob is not intended to be the best opening it is intended to be a fun opening that can get you some enjoyable and different games and the occasional surprise win a ...[text shortened]... l, however, say that at the current moment I do not feel in grave danger of actually losing. 🙂[/b]