12 Jun 05
Originally posted by XanthosNZLol. No, you all missed the point. I was directing you to my game in an attempt to be sarcastic. Thats all.
It leads me to Jerzy - Skeeter, an in progress game with bare kings. Maybe if you actually checked your link instead of assuming that you couldn't possibly be wrong.
skeeter
12 Jun 05
Originally posted by flexmoreIt is a draw. Neither side has sufficient material to mate. Geez.
correct me if i am wrong ... i am only an amateur 😉
don't rook and pawn endgames have at the very least either a rook or a pawn ... or perhaps even both?
what goes on there skeeter ... can you claim a draw somehow?
skeeter
12 Jun 05
Originally posted by skeeterNo, you're mistaken. I know from reading chess books that this is winnible. But I don't expect people to believe me. 😛
What I'm saying is that [b]with correct play Rook v Queen endgames are considered drawn.
skeeter[/b]
In my database, I found 44 games in a Q vs R and no pawns, with both players above 2500. There were 7 draws, and 6 were because the player lost the queen immediately after promoting it. The only player with a fair Q vs R endgame that didn't manage to get the win was Peter Svindler against Boris Gelfand in 2001. Of the 37 real Q vs R endgames, 36 were won, and one was drawn. I'm guessing that it wasn't because Mr. Gelfand had a sudden relevation on how to draw it that no one else has figured out since. Also, such incredible players as Svindler, Morozevich, Seirawan, Karpov, and Short all lost games in this sort of endgame. So it isn't just as a result of poor play.
And if that isn't enough proof for you, I had Shredder play a game against itself from a Q vs R position with the rook side's king located centrally. It won the rook in 35 moves. Here's the game.
1. Qc1+ Kg3 2. Qg1+ Kf4 3. Kd4 Kf5 4. Qg2 Kf4 5. Qg6 Rf2 6. Qe4+ Kg3 7. Ke3 Rf1
8. Qg6+ Kh4 9. Qd3 Rf6 10. Qd8 Kg5 11. Ke4 Kg6 12. Qg8+ Kh6 13. Ke5 Rf1 14. Qg4
Re1+ 15. Kf6 Rf1+ 16. Ke6 Re1+ 17. Kf7 Rf1+ 18. Ke6 Re1+ 19. Kd7 Re5 20. Qf4+
Rg5 21. Qh4+ Kg6 22. Ke6 Rb5 23. Qe4+ Kg5 24. Qc6 Ra5 25. Qc1+ Kh5 26. Qd1+ Kg6
27. Qd3+ Kh5 28. Kf6 Kg4 29. Qe4+ Kh3 30. Qe6+ Kg2 31. Qc6+ Kf1 32. Qf3+ Kg1
33. Qd1+ Kg2 34. Qd2+ Kg3 35. Qxa5 *
God, there must be something better for me to do with my life.
12 Jun 05
Originally posted by NyxieSorry Nyxie I was refering to Game 362802
I have played a couple stalemates on this site that the server just automatically logged as a draw. Aparently, there must be a win in it.
skeeter
12 Jun 05
Originally posted by skeeterYes I understand, pardon my bad humour, but I was implying that if the server does'nt recognize it as a draw, maybe you just need to study the position better.
Sorry Nyxie I was refering to Game 362802
skeeter
12 Jun 05
Originally posted by flexmoreWell it was a rook and pawns endgame but in the end it became what you see bare kings.
correct me if i am wrong ... i am only an amateur 😉
don't rook and pawn endgames have at the very least either a rook or a pawn ... or perhaps even both?
what goes on there skeeter ... can you claim a draw somehow?
12 Jun 05
Originally posted by ark13Thats bollocks. I don't rate shredder anyway and anyway, it made some moves a real player would never consider. And I think there's a three fold in there too. Still looking
No, you're mistaken. I know from reading chess books that this is winnible. But I don't expect people to believe me. 😛
In my database, I found 44 games in a Q vs R and no pawns, with both players above 2500. There were 7 draws, and 6 were because the player lost the queen immediately after promoting it. The only player with a fair Q vs R endgame that ...[text shortened]... Kg2 34. Qd2+ Kg3 35. Qxa5 *
God, there must be something better for me to do with my life.
skeeter
12 Jun 05
1 edit
Originally posted by skeeterlol. So what are you saying, I could pull it off, but Mr. Shredder couldn't? And what about all of the database games?
Thats bollocks. I don't rate shredder anyway and anyway, it made some moves a real player would never consider. And I think there's a three fold in there too. Still looking
skeeter
12 Jun 05
Originally posted by XanthosNZAre there many positions that lead to a draw?
Right I have the KQKR tablebase on my computer. Using that I can tell you if any position with those pieces on the board is a win (and how many moves) or a draw.
For example:
[fen]8/6k1/8/6q1/3RK3/8/8/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]
This is mate in 30 if black is move and mate in 32 if white is move.
Any questions?
12 Jun 05
4 edits
Originally posted by ark13
Are there many positions that lead to a draw?
Black to move. This is drawn. Don't stalemate the king otherwise winning chances might dissolve.
EDIT: Doesn't seem to want to post with the boards when there is more than one.
If the rook is on b8 in that position then it is won.
12 Jun 05
1 edit
Almost without exception they appear to be won by the queen side.
This is the Philidor Position. It is won by 1. Qe5+ Ka8 2. Qa1+ Kb8 3. Qa5
Notice black is is zugzwang (and the way white has returned to the starting position but with black to move). Now black will lose the rook to a fork
3. ... Rb1 4. Qd8+ Ka7 5. Qd4+ Ka8 6. Qh8+ Ka7 7. Qh7+ Kb8 8. Qxb1+ Kc8 9. Qb7+ Kd8 10. Qd7#