19 Feb 07
Originally posted by KorchNote I did state (in the next sentence) that white does not have to take it. I merely gave the example showing if white is greedy here he could lose.
After 11.Bd2 I definetly wouldnt take the pawn (such kind of lines I`m usually even dont consider). I think I would play e4 pushing your bishop to e2 an g2 and your knight wont be able to move on f3.
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by Dragon FireBut look at your comment of diagram
Note I did state (in the next sentence) that white does not have to take it. I merely gave the example showing if white is greedy here he could lose.
"Position after blacks 10th move. 11. Bd2!! and white is probably winning"
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by KorchBecause white has more active play than was obtained in the game.
Why do you think that position after 1. g4 e5 2. c4 h5 3. gxh5 Rxh5 4.Nc3 Nf6 5. Bg2 Bc5 6. e3 d6 7. d4 exd4 8. exd4 Bb6 9. Qe2+ Kf8 "is hardly great for black" ? I think black position is fine - because losing castle isnt so harmful as kingside rook is activated.
Even Fritz assesses that position as a plus for white.
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by KorchIn the interests of objectivity I have amended the note. I do feel that that position was the key moment and e4 is what started the rot. Do you disagree with the assessment that it is key. Saying the key mistake was i. g4 is hardly objective and is in the same class as Homer whose butt I will shortly be kicking if and when he bothers to move.
But look at your comment of diagram
"Position after blacks 10th move. 11. Bd2!! and white is probably winning"
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by Dragon FireHave you read my annotation? I think that your first important mistake was 8.Bf3, then 17.Bxf6 (giving me nice pair of bishops against your bishop and knight), and then (after I couldnt find decisive plan) 40.Ne4+ which finished game.
In the interests of objectivity I have amended the note. I do feel that that position was the key moment and e4 is what started the rot. Do you disagree with the assessment that it is key. Saying the key mistake was i. g4 is hardly objective and is in the same class as Homer whose butt I will shortly be kicking if and when he bothers to move.
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by KorchI have no problems with your annotation. I think it is quite good. well done.
How you`ll be able to exploit your "more active game"?
Btw. I`m waiting your comments about my anotation.
I've tried to give the reasoning behind my moves where possible but I made mistakes, I lost, so what is key is to identify the points where my thinking was faulty and my play can be improved. Hopefully I have done this. If I play this again I will deviate on move 11. e4 not before as I think that was the key (first) mistake.
You won so you plan and your reasoning were more accurate and I cannot fault it. Until I can refute your analysis in actual play I must accept that your assessment was better than mine.
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by Korchnot quite a fair match up don't you think?
Its your opinion. In my opinion 1...e5 with following 2...h5 is making more trouble for black. Your attitude against Grob is too arrogant. If you think that Grob is so bad, then, you can try to beat Dragon_fire on this opening.
Btw. I have studied it for playing with white, but concluded that (at least for me) its useful for blitz and nothing more.
me, barely a 1300 player
and DF, knocking on 2000
no matter what opening he chooses, he would probably destroy me...
just because his understanding of chess/tactics/strategy/etc. is far superior to my own...
but take another 2000 ish player and let DF try his Grob...
he'll have his hands full, no doubt
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by idiomsThat's Andrew Martin's article, not Silman's.
This may have been posted before (on one of the many previous grob threads) but i quite like Silman's analysis on the grob here
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_bits_pieces/041001_h_t_,mt_plsh_grb.html
(starts on page 2)
He also recommends e5.
20 Feb 07
I have to admit I also think the Grob is a pretty poor opening for white, though I suppose you can play almost anything for surprise value occasionally. Think I've only ever faced it once OTB, and then I diverged from the quoted game above with 2...Nc6 (after 1.g4 e5 2.c4), followed up with 3...Bc5 and 4...f5!? and got a very strong attack. Maybe even 2...f5!? immediately is worthy considering. White's problem is that the weaknesses caused by his pawn moves don't go away in a hurry.
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by Northern LadTrue, still - I think the Grob should really be saved for blitz - it's very effective there for obvious reasons (opponent wasting time on clock, not knowing book and not having time to figure moves out...) but in larger time controls white will be struggling to hold equality. I don't doubt it's usefulness in blitz though - I can't think of many more effective blitz openings - but I consider the KG superb at any time control, but with some possible weaknesses at high level CC.
I have to admit I also think the Grob is a pretty poor opening for white, though I suppose you can play almost anything for surprise value occasionally. Think I've only ever faced it once OTB, and then I diverged from the quoted game above with 2...Nc6 (after 1.g4 e5 2.c4), followed up with 3...Bc5 and 4...f5!? and got a very strong attack. Maybe even 2 ...[text shortened]... ng. White's problem is that the weaknesses caused by his pawn moves don't go away in a hurry.
20 Feb 07
What would happen if players like cmsmaster and DragonFire learned to play proper openings instead of the Grob, King Gambit or Smith Morra etc? In club/tourney play you can benefit more from learning different openings rather than the opportunism of gambit/irregular openings.
However if your tactic for gaining rating points is to use irregular openings against weak players, I can see how the pieces fall together in the puzzle.
20 Feb 07
Originally posted by z00tWe must meet up for a nice salad & cup of herbal tea sometime.😴
What would happen if players like cmsmaster and DragonFire learned to play proper openings instead of the Grob, King Gambit or Smith Morra etc? In club/tourney play you can benefit more from learning different openings rather than the opportunism of gambit/irregular openings.
However if your tactic for gaining rating points is to use irregular openings against weak players, I can see how the pieces fall together in the puzzle.