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RHP'ers vs Fritz8: The Game :-)

RHP'ers vs Fritz8: The Game :-)

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Originally posted by Ragnorak
Is it wise playing a gambit where we go down 2 pawns straight away against the machine?

D
The 4. Bc4 line only gambits the d pawn.

G

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Originally posted by no1marauder
The Scotch has been poured!

Well I was thinking the 3 days could be a minimum time and we could extend it if people wanted to have more discussion and do more analysis. I don't think it's always going to be necessary to even use 3 days though: recaptures, forced moves, etc.

We know Fritzie's next move unless he wants to transpose into a Philidor. Assuming he plays exd4, I say stay with the main line Nxd4: I don't think we should gambit. What's everybody else think?




Nxd4 sounds good.

AThousandYoung
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I'm fine with Nxd4.

Corsair
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Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I'm fine with Nxd4.
I am much more into my queens pawn openings so this is not something that I play a lot (or at all really) but Nxd4 looks best to me. What do we think Fritz will do next?

If Nf6 then we have NxN, bxN, e5 which looks good to me.

If NxN then QxN and I am not sure what black does after that. Could someone tell me what the main line is here?

Also, if we don't do Nxd4 then what alternatives are on offer?

AThousandYoung
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Originally posted by Corsair
I am much more into my queens pawn openings so this is not something that I play a lot (or at all really) but Nxd4 looks best to me. What do we think Fritz will do next?

If Nf6 then we have NxN, bxN, e5 which looks good to me.

If NxN then QxN and I am not sure what black does after that. Could someone tell me what the main line is here?

Also, if we don't do Nxd4 then what alternatives are on offer?
I don't play this either. I play the Ruy Lopez.

Bc4 seems like the most reasonable alternative. This is probably the gamibit someone (no1?) mentioned. Bb5 might still be playable, though I don't like it.

Or c3 - this might be the gambit mentioned earlier.

If we play Nxd4, I see Fritz possibly playing d6, d5, Nxd4, Nf6, Bc5, Bb4+, Qf6. I don't know if any of these are unsound - these are the moves I didn't immediately eliminate as possibilities after a cursory analyis.

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Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I don't play this either. I play the Ruy Lopez.

Bc4 seems like the most reasonable alternative. This is probably the gamibit someone (no1?) mentioned. Bb5 might still be playable, though I don't like it.

Or c3 - this might be the gambit mentioned earlier.

If we play Nxd4, I see Fritz possibly playing d6, d5, Nxd4, Nf6, Bc5, Bb4+, Qf6. ...[text shortened]... - these are the moves I didn't immediately eliminate as possibilities after a cursory analyis.
Nxd4 is the Scotch Game.
Bc4 is the Scotch Gambit.
c3 is the Göring Gambit.

I prefer the Scotch Gambit. I've had some fun games with it.
If we play the Scotch Game then book is Nxd4 or Qh4 or Bc5 or Nf6. The final one being the Zuckertort-Berger Variation.

Corsair
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Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I don't play this either. I play the Ruy Lopez.

Bc4 seems like the most reasonable alternative. This is probably the gamibit someone (no1?) mentioned. Bb5 might still be playable, though I don't like it.

Or c3 - this might be the gambit mentioned earlier.

If we play Nxd4, I see Fritz possibly playing d6, d5, Nxd4, Nf6, Bc5, Bb4+, Qf6. ...[text shortened]... - these are the moves I didn't immediately eliminate as possibilities after a cursory analyis.
I thought c3 might be the gambit as well...

Corsair
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Originally posted by XanthosNZ
Nxd4 is the Scotch Game.
Bc4 is the Scotch Gambit.
c3 is the Göring Gambit.

I prefer the Scotch Gambit. I've had some fun games with it.
If we play the Scotch Game then book is Nxd4 or Qh4 or Bc5 or Nf6. The final one being the Zuckertort-Berger Variation.
Thanks that is most helpful.

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Originally posted by Corsair
Thanks that is most helpful.
My opening database strikes again.

Corsair
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I have been searching on line and discovered that Kasparov played Nxd4 beating both Karpov and Short with it in the early 90's.

I feel inspired - I am off to try my hand at this in a couple of blitz games. I will be back after a sound thrashing no doubt.

g

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4. N.d4 .... .

JP

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Originally posted by Corsair
I have been searching on line and discovered that Kasparov played Nxd4 beating both Karpov and Short with it in the early 90's.

I feel inspired - I am off to try my hand at this in a couple of blitz games. I will be back after a sound thrashing no doubt.
According to one of my chess books 4) Nxd4 should give us a small space advantage, the game given as example was also from Kasparov (against E. Bacrot in 2000)

4)...Nxd4 is noted as a fundimental mistake after Qxd4 as the queen is well placed in the centre and can only be driven away by c5 which would be a weakening move.

Corsair
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Originally posted by Jay Peatea
According to one of my chess books 4) Nxd4 should give us a small space advantage, the game given as example was also from Kasparov (against E. Bacrot in 2000)

4)...Nxd4 is noted as a fundimental mistake after Qxd4 as the queen is well placed in the centre and can only be driven away by c5 which would be a weakening move.
That makes sense to me. I will be voting for Nxd4. Still haven't managed to play a blitz game with this opening though. Sicilians get everywhere it seems!

G

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Ok started off the voting for move 4. :-)

s
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I'm by no means an expert, but I do like to play the scotch. After 4. Nxd4 (which is the most likely move going by the votes thus far), the most common replies I've seen/played are:

4... Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 (main line as far as I know, leave it up to black to decide the next move, generally 6... Qg6 to put pressure on the e pawn and allow Nf6 and castling)

4... Nf6, pressuring the e pawn, usually followed by 5. Nxc6 bxc6 6. Bc4

4... Qf6, same idea as the first line

4... Qh4 (5. Nc3 Bc5 or Bb4)

4... Nxd4 5. Qxd4 c5 forcing the Queen back, weaking ihs line slightly, and opening the other diagonal for his Queen

4... Nxd4 5. Qxd4 d6? (highly unusual but I've seen it done) inviting an exchange of Queens to white's advantage or a quick queen check on e5.

4... Nxd4 5. Qxd4 Nf6

My money would be on Fritz playing Qh4, 'cause it's a vicious attacking engine.

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