Here is another game from the same person. This time I spent a little longer and worked out which engine they used. The game contains "quirky" moves for an engine to play, so once you find the engine that matches these odd moves, it isnt hard to see that the whole game has been played by that engine. In this example black is fritz 4. Fritz 4 is quite an old engine and has been improved on many times since it was released which is why running fritz 5-8 is going to produce something that looks dodgy most of the time but wont prove anything. For example move 12. .. f5 give this to fritz 8 and it pretty much goes "You played what?? You muppet!" recommending Qh4 or 0-0. Give the same move to Fritz 4 and f5 is what you get. Another example 17. ..hxg6, Fritz 4's top move, here Fritz is 8 screaming for 0-0 (-3.94) the next line it offers is Bb7 (-3.00) is a whole .94 points down. Yet another example 24. .. Qxd5 Fritz 8 gives Qa4 a -7.06 advantage with the next line coming in at -5.30, Fritz 4 picks Qxd5 over everything else. All the moves after 9. ..Ng4 bar one move, match up to fritz 4. I cant post the analysis of the game since I could only get fritz 4 to work in chessbase light, which wouldnt let me copy the engine variations to the pgn. However anyone can check the game by getting chessbase light from www.chessbase.com. Now the question is how many more games do I have to post before people will accept this person is cheating, I imagine that quite a few of the people who read these boards are spening their time playing him and losing their points. The site is ment to be fun, so maybe making a big fuss about engine users bores people ? But look at it this way, some people do enjoy getting their ratings up, they enjoy the game and clan leaders want the clan wins/points. This player has cheated in more than 100 games and now is doing it in a lot of clan games, its hardly going to be surprising when honest clans are knocked down a place to be replaced by the clan conatining this and other cheaters. For example the Metallica clan who were quick to defend their own player, listening to what they say their player is innocent, however cheating hurts them in a different way. The Metallia clan will probably have played this players clan and lost there games clan games and individual members points, hurting them in two ways. Say in a 10 vs 10, 20 points up for grabs, which seems to be a lot for the clans, the team with this cheater already has 2 points in the bag (10% of an advantage before they even start....infact the clan this cheater is in isnt large, only 3 members, so they have a 33% advantage in all the games they play) since they now only need the other 9 players to get 8 points for a draw or 9 for a win. A large handicap, but one that a lot of the people on this site seem to accept. If you step back and ask yourself which clan leader would accept these odds before the game has started, I think all of them would dismiss the clan game out of hand. Yet it happens and is happening now. Basicly my rant is this, you are being affected by cheaters, its just a case of do you want to know and do something about it or do you want to keep turning a blind eye and constantly having the odds stacked against you and your clan and your friends on this site.
1. d4 Ng8f6 2. c4 g6 3. Nb1c3 Bf8g7 4. e4 d6 5. Bf1d3 Nb8c6 6. Ng1f3 e5
7. d5 Nc6d4 8. Nf3xd4 exd4 9. Nc3e2 Nf6g4 10. h3 Ng4e5 11. Ne2xd4 c5
12. Nd4b3 f5 13. Qd1c2 Qd8h4 14. exf5 b5 15. fxg6 bxc4 16. Qc2e2 cxd3
17. Qe2e3 hxg6 18. Qe3g5 Qh4e4 19. Bc1e3 Ne5f7 20. Qg5g3 Bg7xb2 21. Ra1b1 Bb2c3
22. Nb3d2 Bc3xd2 23. Ke1xd2 Nf7e5 24. Rh1e1 Qe4xd5 25. Be3xc5 Qd5xa2
26. Kd2e3 d2 27. Bc5xd6 dxe1=Q 28. Rb1xe1 Qa2b3 29. Ke3d4 Rh8h4 30. f4 Qb3xg3
31. Re1xe5 Ke8d7 32. Re5e3 Qg3xg2 33. Bd6e5 Qg2b2 34. Re3c3 Rh4xh3
35. Kd4c4 Bc8a6 0-1
There isnt much more I can do to try and convince you that you should take an active intrest in cheaters on this site. I'll anaylsis more games if people want to prove the point (Yes I dont have much life outside chess at the moment, but I love the game to bits). Also let me end this post by giving you an idea of you odds of beating Fritz or any engine. The engine is rating around 2800 - 3000 on a resonable computer. I have a bcf rating of 183 (its a bit higher now, but im not going to keep updating it everytime i win or lose a game) In elo this is 2064 and converted to USCF 2164, in my last chess season i played 38 competitive games. Mostly with the time controls of 1:30 mins for 45 moves and then 15 mins for every 7 moves. This normally gives me at least 2:30 mins thinking about one chess game. Each game iv played has then been run through fritz for about 20 - 30 mins after and in all fritz could improve on my moves, often by vast amounts. Sometimes the improvements are ones that I personally wouldnt agree with because of my style of play, but most of the times it found sometime id missed, like a forced trade off linking my pawns back together 5 moves down the line or just outright blunders. How many of you on this site can say you spend the amount of time on each game, so that your play is of high enough level where you can beat fritz, I dont know how long an advanced player (1800+) would have to spend thinking to beat a fritz cheater from this site who will use the program for at least a minunte or two on each move, maybe 6 hours on that one game ? Track said he can, If he does im not sure how he does, I know I cant. I think most people would agree that without taking unreasonble amounts of time they couldnt either
Originally posted by forevergreenwithenvyOk, no more talking with you now on.
I dont seem to remember starting this, that was Trackhead and you.
So stick your "More chess, less talk" where the sun dont shine Duhian.
foreverusingachessengine, lol 🙄
Have a nice day.
Originally posted by DuhianThats fine by me Duhian, you have nothing to say that i want to listen to anymore.
Ok, no more talking with you now on.
Have a nice day.
What, you think dragging my name through the mud is gonna change anything, dont be so bloody naive.
forevergettingmoreandmorefedupwithRHP
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowWhat he says is true.
Also let me end this post by giving you an idea of you odds of beating Fritz or any engine. The engine is rating around 2800 - 3000 on a resonable computer. I have a bcf rating of 183 (its a bit higher now, but im not going to keep updating it everytime i win or lose a game) In elo this is 2064 and converted to USCF 2164, in my last chess season i ...[text shortened]... hink most people would agree that without taking unreasonble amounts of time they couldnt either
Originally posted by ReelEmInReidI don't entirely agree with this - there's a book I saw in whilst I was in the US called, I think 'A Psychiatrist matches Wits With Fritz', in which an 1800 player consistently beats Fritz in openings such as the Colle. Worth checking out.
What he says is true.
Maybe there is a trick or skill to beating fritz ? :-)
Did the person play fritz otb or more correspondence style, im not saying you cant beat fritz, im saying that, it takes a lot of thought. Give fritz 1:30 for all its moves and give anyone on this site the same time, id put money on fritz beating everyone.
Even if it is something very simlar to rhp setting, thats one person. I still think the majority of people on rhp if not all couldnt do it. Let face it, fritz finnishes off grandmasters on a regular basis, so again i dont think anyone on this site could beat fritz when its given more than a few minutes over its moves, unless they took huge amounts of time to think about their own moves.
Hm, it does indicate that Fritz can be beaten. However fritz still beats GMs on a regular basis. Maybe we should all buy this book and the cheaters on the site would really be up sh*ts creek without a paddle 😀
Hm id also like to point out that the pc he beat fritz 7 on is a bit poo :-) Looking at the analysis of his games on my pc fritz 8 tears both his and fritz 7 moves apart in short order.
Fritz isnt the be all end all of chess, but its still 2800+ aid to people on this site.
I agree Grey, but the point I was trying to make was that Fritz is a monster in timed games, where humans are prone to nerves, time trouble, lack of decent coffee, and all the other general OTB issues. In a game where you can move the bits about, and time pressure isn't so much of an issue, Fritz is 'far' weaker. I doubt I'd ever get half a point, but I would be willing to bet on most of the 2000+ players on here being able to at least draw.
The other problem is it is one thing knowing you are playing Fritz, but if you think you are playing a human you may choose a complex tactical position and get blown away. Which is why the cheating element is so annoying.
Originally posted by OsseSince this is "correspondence" a line that is "dubious" should not be entered into otherwise there is no fault but your own if you lose. Does that really make a difference who you happen to be playing? I played in the PAN AM games (way back in the early 80s) before the USCF instituted a dress code that banned players from wearing bathing suits to games. My female opponent in that game was wearing a bikini and not to surprisingly I lost. Every game I have played since then (in that tournament) was one where I didn't even look at my opponent (usually not until the middlegame). Play should not depend on the opponent but on the board.
I agree Grey, but the point I was trying to make was that Fritz is a monster in timed games, where humans are prone to nerves, time trouble, lack of decent coffee, and all the other general OTB issues. In a game where you can move the bits about, and time pressure isn't so much of an issue, Fritz is 'far' weaker. I doubt I'd ever get half a point, but I wou ...[text shortened]... complex tactical position and get blown away. Which is why the cheating element is so annoying.
Feivel
I had a bit of a sit down and think today. You cant kick cheaters off the site unless they admit it. Say RHP was to kicked the player whos each game matched up to fritz, then some of these players went to their solicitors and started off some action against rhp, and then when its comes back to rhp asking why did you kick him were you 100% sure they were cheating, they would have to say no. Maybe this is the reason and maybe its not. I dont know. However im going to give my clan leaders a list of people and in some cases clans that i wont play full stop. Just on another note, i was playing on uchess the other day and picked a very common opening against one of the top players. They took the same time over each of the opening moves down to move 8, so i went and opened up fritz and put the game into it blow for blow. Looking at the game later on the player followed fritz 8 for over 50 moves in under 15 mins. They arent subcribed to rhp so i doubt i'll ever play them, but it seems the cheating isnt just limited to the correspondence side of this site.
Originally posted by FeivelBrilliant! (gets my rec!?)
Since this is "correspondence" a line that is "dubious" should not be entered into otherwise there is no fault but your own if you lose. Does that really make a difference who you happen to be playing? I played in the PAN AM games (way back in the early 80s) before the USCF instituted a dress code that banned players from wearing bathing suits to games. M ...[text shortened]... y not until the middlegame). Play should not depend on the opponent but on the board.
Feivel
Back in my sophomore year at uni, I once played a particularly difficult rival in a dress - I never asked him if that's why he lost the game. 🙂 (Maybe that explains why he sent several death threats my way in our senior year 😀)
PHP mates,
Please dont lose your mind over someone who cheats with a chess engine.
he/ she cheats no one but self. getting a few quick rating points will take him nowhere. he will neither get a dollar nor a girl with these extra points, and if you lose against a cheat you lose nothing.
If you are sure that guy is a cheat simply dont play him/her.
There are a lot of genuine players ready for a nice game of chess.
I am sure some of you may not agree with me, but there are many who would have similar opinion.