Originally posted by EladarYeah pretty much. Against 1. c4, 1. d4 and 1. Nf3 you certainly can, although against all the other moves maybe you'd like to play a variation that might be a little bit more challenging to White's setup. For instance, I'd hesitate to play 1. b3 Nf6 2. Bb2 g6......I'd probably just play 1...e5! and take up the challenge.
Can you play the KID against anything other than 1.e4? I play the French against 1.e4. I'm trying to learn the KID. Right now I'm playing through Starting Out King's Indian by Gallager (or however his name is spelled).
Gallagher's book is a great way to learn the KID. If you find that maybe there is too much explanation or just that the comments are too obvious, you may want to get "Play the King's Indian" by Gallagher. It's a repertoire book instead of a Starting Out book, and is a little bit more souped up and advanced. Either way, after you finish Starting Out: The KID, I'd invest in this book regardless.
Also, another book that's very good is Mikhail Golubev's "Understanding the King's Indian". Golubev is a life long KID player and an expert, as well as being a great author. It's certainly for more advanced players, but I'm sure any can get something out of it with enough work.
Finally, the rumors going round the street is that Victor Bologan is writing a new KID repertoire book for Black for Chess Stars Publishing (The same people that do the Opening for White According to Anand, Kramnik, and Karpov series) that will be out sometime in early Summer. Whoohooo!
a5 is a pretty good defensive move, but instead of Rb1 I like to get some pressure on either the e or d file, however this usually blocks in my bishop on g2, so I end up playing loads of variations on the English with the bishop coming over to d3 instead of fienshetoing (?) or play the knight to e2.
Another ideia is to get an attack going on the kingside before black does, however I didn't really look into the possible moves for white in this variation, but with the thread of f3 and moving the other pawns up, I think it's pretty much possible to achieve something
Edit: Why not just play a5 imediatly, I can see h6 being a potential weakness if white can get a strong attack on the king side. But then again maybe it's to difficult to get at, perhaps if white can open up the position in the center then black could have a hard time defending his king
Originally posted by orion25Well orion, all I can say is that without some variations it's hard for me to respond to anything you've just said. Of course, if you don't play g3 and Bg2, and decide to play something like d4, e4 and Bd3, you've just transposed from an English to KID, and Black would of course play different moves instead of ...h6, ...a5, ...Re8, etc...
a5 is a pretty good defensive move, but instead of Rb1 I like to get some pressure on either the e or d file, however this usually blocks in my bishop on g2, so I end up playing loads of variations on the English with the bishop coming over to d3 instead of fienshetoing (?) or play the knight to e2.
Another ideia is to get an attack going on the kingside ...[text shortened]... ad of f3 and moving the other pawns up, I think it's pretty much possible to achieve something
If you want to see how I'd respond to your choice of openings using a KID-type set-up, provide some variations or send over a game. Thanks,
-Tony
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Hey Tony, I really that your play was quite excellent, you clearly know your theory - your opening theory was very good and had great middlegame planning [although I already knew that].
Yeah pretty much. Against [b]1. c4, 1. d4 and 1. Nf3 you certainly can, although against all the other moves maybe you'd like to play a variation that might be a little bit more challenging to White's setup. For instance, I'd hesitate to play 1. b3 Nf6 2. Bb2 g6......I'd probably just play 1...e5! and take up the challenge. ...[text shortened]... ramnik, and Karpov series) that will be out sometime in early Summer. Whoohooo![/b]
White failed to plan for queenside expansion which I also thought was strange for players of expert caliber, but still, very nice chess.
May I ask how you improved your opening/middlegame play so substantially; my technique is finally getting better (expect my USCF quick will rise to 2100 by July - just found a local chess club and already obtaining good results: 6/16 first week, 11.5/16 second week in quick chess -should note that I was only properly outplayed in three games of the 32, had many time losses, was too obsessed with not allowing my opponents to open files to advantage) - but my opening theory frankly sucks - I'm finally properly studying, playing through all the kibitzed chessgame Najdorf games [2200 games] (will take about a week to do), and will be analyzing the more salient ones [probably about a batch of 300 more thoroughly] (probably another week), obviously this immersion in chess leads to very quick and substantial improvements (b/w 1st, 2nd weeks of quick chess) , and it is not so time consuming - I do it when I can make time (although I am studying much biology at university, somehow I can do this) and I can absorb games very, very quickly; still I am interested your methods for improvement - your improvements since your earliest games on this site are quite substantial!
Generally I just started analyzing [and occasionally memorize] specific salient opening lines and then also the ideas involved [Najdorf tendencies include retention of light squared B for defensive purposes, unless Nd5, when to play b5 (or rather when not to), e6-e5, Nd7-b6; for white when to play a4-a5, f4-f5 in the Bc4 system, etc.
^^It's my first real study of chess, used to just study games for the tactics, and the ideas and plans more superfically - was just curious as to your methods as I think you will be close to master strength soon enough (and hopefully/I expect I'll be there too! ) ; I'm just not that impressed with the knowledge and abilities of the USCF sub-2300 players that I've met and played more recently at the local chess club and the recent USA Team East tourney.
Gallagher's book is a great way to learn the KID. If you find that maybe there is too much explanation or just that the comments are too obvious, you may want to get "Play the King's Indian" by Gallagher. It's a repertoire book instead of a Starting Out book, and is a little bit more souped up and advanced. Either way, after you finish Starting Out: The KID, I'd invest in this book regardless.
I have both books, but decided to read the starting out book first since Gallagher suggested doing so in the second book. The books weren't very useful for me when I bought them. I didn't even know how to read algebraic notation at the time. I was completely new to chess. Now I'm actually getting something out of the book.
Hi Yuga,
Thanks for the kind words and compliments. Just a little about why I think I've continued to improve throughout my 7 years or so of playing:
- I've played nearly any opening seriously that you can imagine. I own a substantial amount of chess books (~200 at one time, but I've sold most of the ones I don't use, so I down to less than that now) as well. Studying and playing nearly every Black defense against 1. e4 and 1. d4 as well as playing nearly any legal White move 1 has led me to understand a lot of different pawns structures and the plans/tactics that are associated with them. I really love sharp, tactical positions and openings that are very theoretical, but I think I'm versatile enough to play more positional positions and openings, even though I might not want to!
- Given that I've played almost everything, I've been able to zero in on systems that fit my style well and that I enjoy playing. As Black, just an example, here's what I play regularly:
Against 1. e4:
Always 1...c5, but I play the Dragon, Sveshnikov, or Kalashnikov depending on what my opponent plays or my mood.
Against 1. d4
KID or Grunfeld, but mostly the KID these days.
Against 1. c4, 1. Nf3
KID setups....
Once you zero in on something you like, you should begin to specialize. I always tell people that ask me how my opening preparation got so good that if you pick an opening, your preparation should START from critical positions! For instance, I know that 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 0-0 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. 0-0-0 d5 10. exd5 Nxd5 11. Nxc6 bxc6 12. Bd4 e5 13. Bc5 Be6 14. Ne4 Re8 15. h4 h6 16. g4 Qc7 17. g5 h5 18. Bc4 Red8 19. Qf2 is a crictical position for the 9. 0-0-0 variation of the Yugoslav Attack. I don't end my preparation here, since I've made it out 19 moves. This position might be reached in 30 second s by both players in a tournament, so your preparation should start here! For instance, I know that Golubev recommended against my 19...Qb7!? 20. Rhe1 Nf4 21. Bxe6 Nxe6 22. Bd6 with a slight advantage to White. I can go further! I think 22...Rd7 23. Rd2 Rad8 24. Red1 c5N!? was analyzed me till I was ready puke. I thought 25. c4! was critical, when I had some lines after the sharp 25...f5! memorized out to 35 moves or so.
When I study an opening, it's always with the newest book on the opening, a fully updated database to show me the newest games, and more than one engine to check all the lines for blunders and new ideas, and to help me extend theory farther with possible continuations.
Play this variation on ICC or Playchess, etc....and analyze the crap out of your games, always looking up what you should have played.
Anway, call me crazy or obsessive, but once you start learning openings well into the middlegame, it helps your middlegame skills! You find all kinds of nice tactics, new middlegame ideas, and you become intimately familiar with the positions and structures. You feel at home!
- I study more than most chess players since I have time to play less. I study tactics weekly, sometimes daily if I'm really in the mood.
- I've had numerous strong coaches who've helped me out along the way. I've trained with a local master around 2200 USCF first, then I trained with 3 time US Champion Larry Christiansen two summers ago, and last summer I trained with the trainer of the Ukrainian team and child prodigy Andrei Volokitin, Vladimir Grabinsky. Having a coach definitely helps.
- I've surrounded myself with friends who are stronger or equally as strong as me. For instance, my 5 best chess friends all have strength in the expert to master range. We get together 2 days a week or so and analyze, study, play blitz, talk chess, make fun of each other, etc.....
- Play tournaments! This is one I don't do as much as I should, but I'm starting to force myself to spend the money and time doing it! Analyze your games afterwards. It's great experience! I've had to substitute internet chess for tournaments, but it's been okay for me. There's no substitute for playing games and building up that knowledge of common mistakes, plans, tactics. You can also find out what the most popular lines are at your level so you can focus your preparation where it counts.
Sorry for my rant, hope this helps.
PS - This is just my approach and what I do, because I enjoy it. It's worked thus far, but who knows. 😀
PPS - If you're looking for a book on the Najdorf, there's a fairly recent book by my favorite publisher called The Sharpest Sicilian It's very helpful to have a book, as it can make studying and finding the best lines faster and easier. Good luck to you!
Originally posted by EladarAh I see. I still occasionally look back to SOKID as a reference. It contains coverage of some lines that PTKID doesn't have. Also, sometimes I forget why Black plays some of the typically weird KID moves, and SOKID has the explanation. 😀
Gallagher's book is a great way to learn the KID. If you find that maybe there is too much explanation or just that the comments are too obvious, you may want to get "Play the King's Indian" by Gallagher. It's a repertoire book instead of a Starting Out book, and is a little bit more souped up and advanced. Either way, after you finish Starting Out: The KI e. I was completely new to chess. Now I'm actually getting something out of the book.
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Thanks for the advice, all of it, [I'll remember it!] already have started following a lot of it [have some chess friends, now attend a good club past two weeks and have tried a diverse repertoire].
When I study an opening, it's always with the newest book on the opening, a fully updated database to show me the newest games, and more than one engine to check all the lines for blunders and new ideas, and to help me extend theory farther with possible continuations. Analyze the crap out of your games, always looking up what you should have played. Once y ...[text shortened]... learning openings well into the middlegame, it helps your middlegame skills!
Good luck to you!
I know your openings; I've read some of your posts. ;-)
Agree that knowing the opening positions, associated ideas, tactics, etc. help immensely with middlegame.
I never had a chess coach, only chess books I've read was Tal's Life and Games, and Amateur's Mind (the Silman book is not so useful now as I know how to study) and have played in very few tournaments, and only a few years ago besides the recent USATE, but I will play in the World Open as well as a few friends in Philly in July – and I will be exceptionally well prepared.
My computer crashed a month ago, so I do not have the game on me, but this was the Dragon opening [you're a Dragoneer so I think you may find the line of interest, although comparatively dull and inferior] against a 2270 at the USATE, not sure the move order but think this is it:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Bd7 8.Qd2 Rc8 9.Qd2 h5 !?
10 0-0-0 Ne5 [critical position]
Of course I should have continued with the waiting and likely Rybka move Kb1[but I think not Be2, since Nc4 Bxc4 is a tempo] I think but I did not see a follow up, of course I expect that g4 should be prepared, I wasn’t sure how - I’m guessing h3-g4 will work since h5-h4 I think may be met by Bg5 and Qf2, [if not then g3-h3-g4 may be necessary although it would be strange if the intermediary move g3 is necessary] but instead I decided to set the pawn structure played the inferior h4, setting the pawn structure. Eventually I sacked g4 – in the game I went up the exchange for a pawn, but the pawn structure was not conducive to winning advantage – had I played f5 later which was possible or managed to trade off queens I would have a nice winning position but instead I blundered a whole rook in time pressure although it was another half hour of his clock until he finished me off.
My play was somewhat disappointing in the game in which I lost and drew although I played very well in the other rounds. I scored 3.5/5 in the tourney, a draw against a 2040 in the first round although I agreed in a fairly easily winning position up a pawn and position for a variety of reasons, the short story is that I was a bit upset - lost my car keys [were found later], was hungry, teammates had finished, takes time convert advantage. Also my opening in that game was inferior, and I had to play cautiously and prophylactically and had to sacrifice the exchange to create winning chances. Still the tournament atmosphere was fun – the hardest thing is eating well! I bring my own food.
One of our top boards played (we brought two teams, not on my team) Bill Lombardy, he didn't know it, he thought he played some random IM, that was amusing. Also somebody told our fourth board, piece of cake, after the first game [he handled it with grace, it probably was true]. Anyway, not much excitement at tournaments, really, but the chess and my teammates are good fun.
Good luck to you too; have fun with your chess [it seems like you do] !
Originally posted by z00tYou haven't said anything any of us doesn't know. You didn't "spoil da show".
Sorry to spoil da show but one has to play sharp openings like the KID precisely. Unless the white players are CC players who are used to consulting opening books, one has to learn the openings. BTW the KID went out of favour long ago, ask Kasparov 😀
Tell Rajdabov the KID's out of favor. Maybe he'll stop winning with it play a lame Slav like everyone else. Go troll somewhere else.
Originally posted by !~TONY~!And tell Carlsen that the dragon is busted so he'll stop winning with it.
You haven't said anything any of us doesn't know. You didn't "spoil da show".
Tell Rajdabov the KID's out of favor. Maybe he'll stop winning with it play a lame Slav like everyone else. Go troll somewhere else.
Edit:
Oh, and why doesn't Svidler know not to play that Grunfeld. He's just been lucky so far.
Originally posted by z00tOut-of-fashion doesn't mean bad. Kasparov went to the semi-slav because it was easier theoretically and it allowed him more time to prepare the Najdorf. Without careful prep it can be difficult to equalize with the KID. Nevertheless it's a fighting opening and that's why its so good and also why Radjabov isn't afraid of it. In fact, the KID was played by Radjabov, Ivanchuck, and Grischuk at Linares (a category 25, so don't act like the KID is only fit for amateurs).
I really was spoiling "da show" of a certain geek showboating when in fact, it illustrates poor preparation of an out of fashion opening. Just for the record, how many years ago did Kasparov stop playing the KID? Don't throw the toys out of your pram (just yet) ....
I'd like to also point out that I wasn't the one to deviate first in either of my games. In the Fianchetto KID, my opponent play 8. d5?!, after which I think Black is already slightly better, then 9. Nd2, which on the chessgames.com database, has never been played. In the other, my opponent deviated first with lower rate moves like Re1 and Bf1.
If there's one part of my chess you can't criticize, it's my opening play.