10 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by !~TONY~!1.e4...e5
I would definitely take black in the Traxler fairly happily. I play 1..c5 normally, but when I dabble in 1..e5 I'm always angling for a Traxler. I just find it annoying when people strut around claiming something is bad for Black, and don't actually have any basis. It's hurting their chess. At least Squelch then presented a line, which looks to be a good tr ...[text shortened]... yed, etc.. hence my comment about the need for some chessplayers to read some stats books. 😀
2.Nf3...Nc6
3.Bc4...Nf6
4.Ng5...Bc5
5.Bxf7+...Ke7
6.Bc4...Rf8
7.Nc3...Bxf2+
8.Kxf2...Nxe4+
9.Kg1...Nxg5
10.d4
And your 10th move is...
10 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by !~TONY~!So my line does seem slightly better for white?
Check my BTW, in the above post.
By the way, I have to say the 1 white win & 1 draw thing was meant tongue in cheek & as just a vague db reference for anyone interested. Hence the brackets.
11 Dec 07
Originally posted by ih8sens6.Bd5 is probably better, but you seem to miss the point. The Traxler just isn't good enough. I'm a pretty decent OTB player well in touch with IM/GM theory. All the strongest players have access to the latest Fritz (and other engines) and powerful hardware plus databases etc. I can assure you that it will have been extensively analysed, and if it were playable, it would be played at the highest level. Unfortunately it is not. But I agree that it is perfectly playable at lower levels.
funny enough fritz gives black complete (or just about) equality for the pawn less than 10 moves into the game with Bxf7+ ...
I just found that out... let me look up the line.. i have it written down somewhere...
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Bxf7+ Ke7 6. Bb3 Rf8 7. d3 d6
8. Nf3 Qe8 9. Nc3 Qg6 10. Nh4 Qg4 [fen]r1b2r2 ...[text shortened]... t is good for white but the game does equalize.. and black gets the tempo... good enough for me.
11 Dec 07
Originally posted by Northern LadPlus why risk losing with something so complex & untested at GM level when, as a pro, you play chess to put food on the table & clothe the kids?
6.Bd5 is probably better, but you seem to miss the point. The Traxler just isn't good enough. I'm a pretty decent OTB player well in touch with IM/GM theory. All the strongest players have access to the latest Fritz (and other engines) and powerful hardware plus databases etc. I can assure you that it will have been extensively analysed, and if it were ...[text shortened]... est level. Unfortunately it is not. But I agree that it is perfectly playable at lower levels.
11 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Northern LadMaybe Traxler is not 100% sound
6.Bd5 is probably better, but you seem to miss the point. The Traxler just isn't good enough. I'm a pretty decent OTB player well in touch with IM/GM theory. All the strongest players have access to the latest Fritz (and other engines) and powerful hardware plus databases etc. I can assure you that it will have been extensively analysed, and if it were ...[text shortened]... est level. Unfortunately it is not. But I agree that it is perfectly playable at lower levels.
BUT
arguments like "if its not popular then it`s not playable" is absolutely unconvincing. And I think that this banal argument have been discussed in many threads for example in - Thread 70577 (page 3 and 4).
11 Dec 07
1 edit
Erm hate to throw a spanner in the works...
Anand vs Beliavsky
0-1
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018213
Efimov vs Shirov
0-1
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1123363
But Beliavsky only managed a draw with the Traxler against some guy called Karpov here:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1068378
11 Dec 07
Originally posted by !~TONY~!I would prefer 7...Qe8!? (instead of 7...Bxf2+)
I would definitely take black in the Traxler fairly happily. I play 1..c5 normally, but when I dabble in 1..e5 I'm always angling for a Traxler. I just find it annoying when people strut around claiming something is bad for Black, and don't actually have any basis. It's hurting their chess. At least Squelch then presented a line, which looks to be a good tr ...[text shortened]... ver moves and chess gymnastics, Black has his fair share of chances in a very messy position.
11 Dec 07
Originally posted by KorchI stand by what I said. Strong players are always looking for new opening lines to try out and surprise opponents. Powerful engines and large databases are a big help in this. And finding good counter-attacking lines for black is something that's particularly sought after.
Maybe Traxler is not 100% sound
BUT
arguments like "if its not popular then it`s not playable" is absolutely unconvincing. And I think that this banal argument have been discussed in many threads for example in - Thread 70577 (page 3 and 4).
Playing counter gambits for black doesn't even require demonstrating full compensation for the pawn. Openings like the Benko and Marshall come into this category. Black gets enough play in terms of creating practical chances.
Since 4.Ng5 has recently become more popular at higher levels (Nigel Short even considers it a refutation of the Two Knights), you can rest assured that the Traxler will have been examined in some detail at GM level. Interesting fact: I have not been able to find a single game of any sort in the last eight years in which a 2500+ has played the Traxler with black. Must mean something.