Which is better,e4 or d4 as your first move for white.

Originally posted by orion25
No it hasn't. It is attacking the queenside. Sure it can turn and attack the king, but so can white's bishop.

I've always felt sorry the 1.g3 players King Bishop.
It has never sacced on f7 or h7 and to me it always appears gloomy
sitting there on g2.

It does not have the same reputation as the Black King's Bishop,
the mighty Dragon Bishop. It's the shy one of the KB's twins.

Originally posted by Green Paladin
In many variations of the Sicilian Dragon White castles queenside and storms the Black king.

Benko played 1. g3 in the 1962 Interzonal Tournament. He beat Fischer with it, and later beat Tal with it, even though Tal saw the Fischer game and prepared for it. Two of my favorite games to share:

First Fischer

Originally posted by wormwood
by far the most common situation.

Hi O.

It's the reputation the moves 1.g3 and 1...g6 have.



1....g6 and you are devious, cunning....A Rat.

(Indeed some places call the Modern The Rat.)

1.g3 and you are a clown who does not know how to play White.
The games of Paul Charles Morphy mean nothing and are lost to you.

I have played over 1,000's of games where the Black fianchettoed
Bishop has been the king conker.
Very few where the White Bishop on g2 has had the same clout.

Black will not take the same 'chances' as White v a fianchetto.
Why should they, they have equalised.

A captain of a chess team I once played in always endevoured to
make sure the 1.g3 and 1.Nf3 players got Black.

That was Andrew Laing, an elderly Marshall look and play alike.
A brilliant player who 1930's score book had league and county games
v Menchick, Sir George Thomas, Winter, Abrahams and Mieses.

Look again.



The Black set up is sinister, it has menace.

White is throwing a custard pie.

Of course all this is a personal opinion but I do think every now and then
a 1.g3 lad should venture out and play 1.e4 and see what else a White
King's Bishop (The Lopez Bishop) can do.

You can play the Exchange Lopez!! 🙂

Since I fianchetto both kingside bishops it's amusing to note that the clown outscores the rat by quite a percentage.

Clown 96 (66% ) 39 (27% ) 11 (8% ) 146 (51% )
Rat 76 (55% ) 57 (41% ) 5 (4% ) 138 (49% )

Hi Paul.

You forgot to mention that in the same 1962 tournament
Benko lost playing 1.g3 against Keres and Petrosian.

Fischer was not quite Fischer then and Tal was unwell,
infact Tal was taken to hospital during the tournament.

Fischer beat Benko's 1.g3 in the USA CH, 1966.

Hi Diet.

A good name for an opening that. The Clown Attack.

Just having a Sunday Morning 'wind up'.

(I know it's 2.30 in the afternoon but I just got up).

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Of course all this is a personal opinion but I do think every now and then
a 1.g3 lad should venture out and play 1.e4 and see what else a White
King's Bishop (The Lopez Bishop) can do.

Hi GP,
I'm not a 1.g3 player mind you, I will only play that move on the 3rd chance I get, but I know the power of the g2 bishop and whatever you say it is objectively at least as strong as a bishop on g7, though it seems white sometimes castles queenside for some reason when facing a long bishop (big mistake 😉), but I wouldn't have known as I don't ever play sicilians or 1.e4. These openings are just way too boring.

Yeah I know, you will kill me for that, and give me at least 10 examples of great 1.e4 games, but truth be said I just don't see the fun in playing 500 mindless theoretic moves before having to think the least bit. I like to make my opponent think what to do right from the start, and I will achieve that better with other first moves.

Anyhow, I'm driving of topic, and I am certainly no master on the subject, but it makes perfect sense to me that, if your opponent is unwilling to take any risk against your formation, as opposed to the same formation, but mirrored, then it is already a show that this formation has definitely great power to its name. Sure you say black has already equalised, and truth be said, white didn't capitalize on the opening move, but black hasn't prevented him from either.

Hi O.

"Yeah I know, you will kill me for that, and give me at least
10 examples of great 1.e4 games."

Not at all, Chess is all about opinions, judgements, arguments, taste....
We are contantly setting traps for each other and debatting moves over
the board.

Forums are like chess games.

You prefer this move, I prefer another.
You can say one thing, I can say another.

I doubt if anyone will change what they have played and what they
want to play.

I don't think the whole theory of 1.g3 is under threat from this thread.

I'm just saying if Coko the Clown was a chess player then he would play 1.g3. 😉

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi O.

"Yeah I know, you will kill me for that, and give me at least
10 examples of great 1.e4 games."

Not at all, Chess is all about opinions, judgements, arguments, taste....
We are contantly setting traps for each other and debatting moves over
the board.

Forums are like chess games.

You prefer this move, I prefer another.
You can say ...[text shortened]... thread.

I'm just saying if Coko the Clown was a chess player then he would play 1.g3. 😉

In my book, grandmaster repertoire , English opening by Mihail Marin, he addresses why some mirror openings are not as a good with the white pieces, even if you have a whole tempo up. In short, some opening by black are designed to equalize, and do so extremely well and effectively. The thing is, when white play these same moves, he also equalizes, but that's not his goal out of the opening. Another thing, the openings by black are designed to react to the active white play, so the same openings doesn't work with the white piece because he has nothing to react to, and if he tries it, black will play in a different, more optimal way than the mirror of the opening. You don't see anyone playing the Caro-Kann as white right? That's also why starting by financhettoing your bishop without taking any control of the center with white makes the position equal (vs best play) and white can't hope for an opening advantage. Then again, it's only a big deal at the highest level, it might even be a good strategy for us, since we get to a playable middlegame without having to memorize anything. I think the matter of pointing at the black king or not is a matter of taste, putting pressure on the queenside wins games aswell.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
I have played over 1,000's of games where the Black fianchettoed
Bishop has been the king conker.

This might seem like splitting hairs, but Reti made this point, and I am a fan of his.

I think it is incorrect to say that 1. g3 does not influence the center. When the bishop goes to g2, it immediately influences e4 and d5, and cuts right through the center of the board.

Looking at 1. e4, it does cover d5, but that's it (development is a HUGE but separate issue, so we can't ignore it). It occupies e4, but it doesn't control it, except to the extent that any black piece will have to stop and capture the pawn on e4 rather than pass straight through.

I think this is a common misconception, even among otherwise strong players, as I hear and read it often.

If flank openings really did ignore the center, they would lose, and this thread would probably not exist. The reality is that flank openings are just as concerned about the center as classical openings, but they go about addressing that concern in a very different manner.

I apologize if I ramble on a bit, but I read Reti's Modern Ideas in Chess and Masters of the Chess Board back when I was starting out, and they have had a significant influence on my understanding and approach to the game.