Originally posted by sasquatch672I think you need to relax a bit. If you're so sure of it being poor play then you should enjoy punishing them for it.
So is it just punks looking for a cheap thrill, hoping you won't notice that their only two pieces advanced - the queen and the bishop - will mate you on the next move? It's pretty much a sign of disrespect, isn't it? Aren't you pretty much calling your opponent stupid? And if that's what you're doing - calling them stupid - would you have the g ...[text shortened]... you sneering idiots with your four-inch biceps and your pasty skin would not possess those guts.[/b]
That being said, I recently had a very frustrating game where I blundered into checkmate w/ 2 back to back blunders against one of these "pushy queen" playersGame 1031828...definately not one of my finer moments
Originally posted by DfthdFor beginners it's a good introduction to tactics.
Fried liver another stupid trap in the Italian. I'll admit its much more sophisticated than the scholars mate but still it comes about through bad play by black rather than good play by white.
But I don't think White has a forced win.
Originally posted by THUDandBLUNDERWhite doesn't have a forced win, the defence for it is just so totally and utterly complicated that black is better off avoiding that line with Nf6 and play the hungarian defence or paris defence or the giucco piano, anything else that will stop white's knight from going to g5. Often newer players simply panic after they realise they "can't" stop the knight or bishop from f7.
For beginners it's a good introduction to tactics.
But I don't think White has a forced win.
"I play alot of live chess with real people in addition to my games here." The problem is you're not dealing with real people here, that's why they bring their queens out early. If they were real people they would follow the customary principles of chess. Sometimes I play such a lousy game, I even ask myself if I am in the "real people" category, then when I play a good game I convince myself that it was my opponent who wasn't real. Am I making myself clear?
I'm confused on why people get mad, or call their opponents idiots because they follow a certain pattern. If they pull their queen out early.. either it will help them win the game.. or make them lose the game.. or it will have no bearing on how the game will progress. If you are expecting the opponent to move a pawn out, and he moves a bishop, do you say he's not playing chess right? Last I remember, none of the books about chess tell you that you are not allowed to move the queen out early, else your opponent might get mad.
Bottom line is.. if pulling the queen out early is a mistake.. the players rating will be affected accordingly, and you will have an easy game.. I've demolished a few opponents pulling my queen out and taking out half their back rank while they try to trap her.. Its the way the game is played.. queen is out.. watch out.. and change your play tactics.. is it more that you can no longer follow your book/db of moves like they tell you now that an abnormal move has been played?
In some variations the queen has to come out early. Generally it is bad play if the queen can be bothered by lesser officers in the opposing camp. Quite often I find that I get natural development (if my opponent has unwisely brought out the queen early) with a tempo as well because I am attacking the queen with developing moves.
The Fried Liver is very defendable, black can play a number of gambit lines
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5
Black can play the risky Bc5 or Nxe4 when if white takes the pawn on f7 with his knight he is toast!
Or the safe d5, when exd5 is met by either b5, or Na5.
I could post more detailed variations but I think I am quite boring enough.
Originally posted by demonseedYes that's my point, most new players when faced with the fried liver might play d4 but not follow up wither either Na5 or b5. And honestly, I've yet to see someone around my rating (still quite low but not low enough) try the fried liver....
In some variations the queen has to come out early. Generally it is bad play if the queen can be bothered by lesser officers in the opposing camp. Quite often I find that I get natural development (if my opponent has unwisely brought out the queen early) with a tempo as well because I am attacking the queen with developing moves.
The Fried Liver is very ...[text shortened]... ther b5, or Na5.
I could post more detailed variations but I think I am quite boring enough.
Originally posted by MIODudeAbsolutely dude. Nail on the head. A good chess player should be able to cope with (and foresee) anything that is thrown at them. That's exactly what the game is all about. If someone brings out their queen early they are taking a gamble which can some times pay off. (more often than not with me cos i never know what to do with that scary thing zooming about)
I'm confused on why people get mad, or call their opponents idiots because they follow a certain pattern. If they pull their queen out early.. either it will help them win the game.. or make them lose the game.. or it will have no bearing on how the game will progress. If you are expecting the opponent to move a pawn out, and he moves a bishop, do you say ...[text shortened]... nger follow your book/db of moves like they tell you now that an abnormal move has been played?
Originally posted by jimslyp69The reason some people get irritated is because we actually want to LEARN something. Once a player knows how to refute a certain trap he doesn't need to learn it again. If you play in s***holes like yahoo instead of places like ICC or FICS you'll see that almost every game opens with a variation of scholar's mate or some other dumb trap. We want to practice opening lines and play in positions we have to become familiar with in serious openings instead of the same stupid traps over and over again.
Absolutely dude. Nail on the head. A good chess player should be able to cope with (and foresee) anything that is thrown at them. That's exactly what the game is all about. If someone brings out their queen early they are taking a gamble which can some times pay off. (more often than not with me cos i never know what to do with that scary thing zooming about)
Originally posted by wibYep Also, OTB players would exchange anypiecce as soon as possible!!
Naaah, I don't think it's disrespectful to bring the queen out early. And I don't think they're calling their opponent's stupid either. I believe it's just a case of people bringing out their strongest piece and playing what they believe to be the most aggressive move. They want excitement.
As others have said, most people, especially at lower rating ...[text shortened]... bringing the queen out early is only bad if their opponent *proves* it's bad over the board.
Originally posted by buddy2NO?
"I play alot of live chess with real people in addition to my games here." The problem is you're not dealing with real people here, that's why they bring their queens out early. If they were real people they would follow the customary principles of chess. Sometimes I play such a lousy game, I even ask myself if I am in the "real people" category, the ...[text shortened]... good game I convince myself that it was my opponent who wasn't real. Am I making myself clear?
Originally posted by DfthdI used to play the Fried Liver as white, but my opponents would always sac a pawn and I would be left with a miserable position. I think Fischer played it and got beat in around 15 moves.
Yes that's my point, most new players when faced with the fried liver might play d4 but not follow up wither either Na5 or b5. And honestly, I've yet to see someone around my rating (still quite low but not low enough) try the fried liver....