Originally posted by demonseedFischer played it against Bisguier in 1963, and won. Jon Edwards has some analysis here: http://www.queensac.com/chessblog/bookgames/brady/fischer1963.htm
I used to play the Fried Liver as white, but my opponents would always sac a pawn and I would be left with a miserable position. I think Fischer played it and got beat in around 15 moves.
Originally posted by DfthdBlmey! I never realised such snobbery encompassed the game.
The reason some people get irritated is because we actually want to LEARN something. Once a player knows how to refute a certain trap he doesn't need to learn it again. If you play in s***holes like yahoo instead of places like ICC or FICS you'll see that almost every game opens with a variation of scholar's mate or some other dumb trap. We want to practic ...[text shortened]... o become familiar with in serious openings instead of the same stupid traps over and over again.
As far as i'm concerned, chess is about winning, ie forcing check mate.
Okay, throwing your queen out as soon as possible to have a bit of weight on the board is not a 'classic' opening and may be frowned upon in certain circles but, in all honesty, how can you say trawling through books and data bases for some one elses tactical manouvres be playing with good spirit. How can copying someone elses tactics be classed as using your own IQ and mental articulation.
I think you are missing the entire point of the game.
Originally posted by jimslyp69Firstly I don't see how my/and everyone else's desire to learn more about the game can be seen as snobbery and secondly if you think chess is about winning then I can safely say you won't be winning anyone by attempting to scholar's mate them. And if you're so concerned about winnign then you should know that gaining and advantage in the opening is very important and that opening databases provide the best way to maintain the advantage for white and gain equality for black.
Blmey! I never realised such snobbery encompassed the game.
As far as i'm concerned, chess is about winning, ie forcing check mate.
Okay, throwing your queen out as soon as possible to have a bit of weight on the board is not a 'class ...[text shortened]... ticulation.
I think you are missing the entire point of the game.
Maybe I shouldn't make any comments until I get my rating back up to where it should be (only in high 1200s to low 1300s) but I really thought chess was a game where people had more class. To be insulted or angry at another players move or unwillingness to resign is strange. I thought I was pretty good at chess before I came to this site, but found that there were many people who were better. I learned in a hurry to leave my queen at home. However, never once when I brought my queen out was I trying to disrespect anyone. I live in the middle of nowhere where there are no "chess circles" but if they were and they acted like blackjack players, then I would certainly not be a part of it.
Originally posted by DfthdWanting to learn the game is fine, but your opponent isn't obligated to teach you.
Firstly I don't see how my/and everyone else's desire to learn more about the game can be seen as snobbery and secondly if you think chess is about winning then I can safely say you won't be winning anyone by attempting to scholar's mate them. And if you're so concerned about winnign then you should know that gaining and advantage in the opening is very i ...[text shortened]... databases provide the best way to maintain the advantage for white and gain equality for black.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemI never said he was. I was explaining why people felt fustrated with tools playing traps as openings. And we DO have the right to feel fustrated just as they have the right to do that.
Wanting to learn the game is fine, but your opponent isn't obligated to teach you.
Originally posted by DfthdThe whole game is about setting traps from the very opening. And i can't understand why you are being so offensive in your attitude over a blooming game. Take a chill pill dude and climb down of that there high horse. And sorry if it spoils your neat little spoon fed database bliss, but that's the wonderful world of chess.
I never said he was. I was explaining why people felt fustrated with tools playing traps as openings. And we DO have the right to feel fustrated just as they have the right to do that.
Originally posted by jimslyp69The game is about winning your opponent not causing him to lose. And I have every right to take and give offense if you want to call me snobbish and spoon fed.
The whole game is about setting traps from the very opening. And i can't understand why you are being so offensive in your attitude over a blooming game. Take a chill pill dude and climb down of that there high horse. And sorry if it spoils your neat little spoon fed database bliss, but that's the wonderful world of chess.
Originally posted by jimslyp69Was there an arguement in the first place? The original poster was expressing his fustration with people playing such traps and I was agreeing with him. No, I don't think there was an arguement.
I think perhaps you are detracting away from the original argument dude.
If we want to go back to the issue of the original thread...
King's Gambit:
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Qh4+ 4.Kf1 is a book line.
Pirc Defense:
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 c6 5.f3 Qb6!? is a book line as well. Black's 'early' Queen move forces White to commit. 6.Rb1 denies him Queenside castling, 6.b3?! makes 0-0-0 less safe, and 6.Qd2 Qxb2 gives Black an extra pawn.
So there is no need to feel insulted (although feel free to be! I could use the psychological advantage); in fact, a player bringing the Q out early may be following book.
Finally, some openings are begging for an early Queen strike. Damiano's Defense: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6?! 3.Nxe5! fxe5?? 4.Qh5+! and wins.
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As others have said, sometimes it is part of the opening....
If pulling your queen out "early" isn't "proper" chess, then I guess somebody forgot to tell that to some of our top 5 players on the site (Ironman31, David Tebb, Fernando Vasquez)
Game 229233
Game 210686
Game 980991
Game 981003
Game 1027742
Game 980638
Game 866957
Game 980650
Game 994366
Why don't you pm them and explain how chess is supposed to be played? 🙂
--tmetzler
I would personally like to thank you and your fancy program. Chess is about making the best moves to win. If someone makes a bad move in bringing their queen out early, people should be happy and punish them for it. If you have trouble punishing them, and often lose when someone brings out their queen, then it was a good move ( or at least against you). And you can't criticize someone for making a good move.
Originally posted by DfthdThe game is all about causing your opponent to lose because there is a general consensus that the game is technically a draw.
The game is about winning your opponent not causing him to lose. And I have every right to take and give offense if you want to call me snobbish and spoon fed.
Please don't go round telling other people how to play.