Covid 19 conspiracy theories.

@humy said
Not necessarily.
Just one example of a virus that stimulates the body to produce antibodies against it but for those antibodies to fail to give immunity to that virus is the HIV virus.
People with HIV often have antibodies against it but that's not enough to kill all the virus in their body and thus they still eventually die of AIDS.

P.S. Because I am not aware of any real ...[text shortened]... t can still be said to be "probably not true" simply because its not true for most kinds of viruses.

What does the "i" in HIV stand for?

@metal-brain said
What does the "i" in HIV stand for?

Immunodeficiency.
And that's not why the immune system fails to eliminate all the HIV virus from the body despite the immune system making antibodies against the virus.
Another example of a virus that the immune system often fails to eliminate all of from the body despite the immune system making antibodies against the virus is the chickenpox virus and we know this because it sometimes later causes shingles.

But more to the point, although this is still far from conclusive, there is apparent some empirical evidence that in rare cases a person may catch C19 twice despite making antibodies against it the first time;
https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-catch-twice/
"...A few readers have asked us whether you can catch Covid-19 twice. This follows reports at the end of February that a Japanese woman had tested positive a second time. A recent article in the Daily Mail and two articles in the Sun also suggested in their headlines and their early paragraphs that this might be the case.

The evidence so far shows that catching the disease twice is very rare, and that most infected people recover and develop immunity against it. However, it is not yet clear how long this immunity will last.

When a journalist raised the case of the woman in Japan at the Prime Minister’s press conference on 16 March, the Chief Scientific Advisor, Sir Patrick Vallance said: “In any infectious disease there are cases where people can catch something again. They’re rare. There’s nothing to suggest that this is a common occurrence in this disease, but we are learning as we go along.”
..."
although that link then explains there may have been a problem in sampling so cannot yet form any firm conclusions from that and, even if it does sometimes happen, it probably only happens in only a few vary rare cases.
But, still, its the EXPERTS that say its theoretically possible. And I listen to them, not you. Guess why?

@humy said
Immunodeficiency.
And that's not why the immune system fails to eliminate all the HIV virus from the body despite the immune system making antibodies against the virus.
Another example of a virus that the immune system often fails to eliminate all of from the body despite the immune system making antibodies against the virus is the chickenpox virus and we know this because it ...[text shortened]... till, its the EXPERTS that say its theoretically possible. And I listen to them, not you. Guess why?

"Another example of a virus that the immune system often fails to eliminate all of from the body despite the immune system making antibodies against the virus is the chickenpox virus and we know this because it sometimes later causes shingles."

I am aware some require more than one vaccination. I never claimed immunity lasted forever. That isn't an issue unless immunity is very limited and you have not shown that. Besides, antibody tests should give us a good idea by testing the first survivor of a confirmed SARS2 case. If that person still has antibodies we have a good idea that immunity lasts that long at least. It seems likely they would have already done that. Why have we not heard about the results? Is it to deliberately keep us in a state of fear?

@metal-brain said
"Another example of a virus that the immune system often fails to eliminate all of from the body despite the immune system making antibodies against the virus is the chickenpox virus and we know this because it sometimes later causes shingles."

I am aware some require more than one vaccination. I never claimed immunity lasted forever. That isn't an issue unless immunit ...[text shortened]... one that. Why have we not heard about the results? Is it to deliberately keep us in a state of fear?

So I take it you now admit that the production of antibodies don't necessarily give people permanent immunity and thus it is possible on the rare occasion for a person to catch the same virus twice even if their immune system made antibodies against the virus when they first had the virus and thus it isn't "absurd" that this might be on the rare occasion the case for C19 and thus it might be true that its possible to catch it twice.
I am glad we are now in agreement.
Hopefully you have now learned to not to so readily dismiss what the experts say is possible as "absurd".

@humy said
Immunodeficiency.
And that's not why the immune system fails to eliminate all the HIV virus from the body despite the immune system making antibodies against the virus.
Another example of a virus that the immune system often fails to eliminate all of from the body despite the immune system making antibodies against the virus is the chickenpox virus and we know this because it ...[text shortened]... till, its the EXPERTS that say its theoretically possible. And I listen to them, not you. Guess why?

Dengue fever is a nasty bug. After the first infection macrophages display anti-bodies to it on their cell membrane, the Dengue fever virus is able to infect the macrophage using the anti-body as an infection route. The result of this is that a second infection is more severe than the initial infection.

@humy said
So I take it you now admit that the production of antibodies don't necessarily give people permanent immunity and thus it is possible on the rare occasion for a person to catch the same virus twice even if their immune system made antibodies against the virus when they first had the virus and thus it isn't "absurd" that this might be on the rare occasion the case for C19 and thu ...[text shortened]... ully you have now learned to not to so readily dismiss what the experts say is possible as "absurd".

I never made a claim of permanent immunity. You are delusional. Most vaccines are effective for many years though. That is good enough. You made no point.

@deepthought said
Dengue fever is a nasty bug. After the first infection macrophages display anti-bodies to it on their cell membrane, the Dengue fever virus is able to infect the macrophage using the anti-body as an infection route. The result of this is that a second infection is more severe than the initial infection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_vaccine

@metal-brain said
I never made a claim of permanent immunity.

Whether you meant to imply that, I proved your original statement of "Antibodies give people immunity" is not necessarily true in all cases and this isn't, as you claimed, "absurd".

@humy said
Whether you meant to imply that, I proved your original statement of "Antibodies give people immunity" is not necessarily true in all cases and this isn't, as you claimed, "absurd".

Did he say antibodies give all people immunity?

@eladar said
Did he say antibodies give all people immunity?

OK, he didn't and I just assumed he thought that and partly because he never stated the contrary.

The fact remains that what he called dismissively as just a "conspiracy theory" and "absurd" (someone not getting immunity to SARS2 after they get it) wouldn't be "absurd" according to the experts who are researching the possibility, else they wouldn't be researching the possibility!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/do-coronavirus-survivors-have-immunity-from-reinfection-maybe

The fact is, although antibody response to most kinds of viruses is associated with permanent i.e. life long immunity, we still don't yet know for sure if a C19 antibody response to actually catching C19 (as opposed to from a vaccine) gives permanent immunity and, unfortunately, it is still credible for it not to. Time will tell.
But even if C19 antibody response from catching C19 fails to give permanent immunity, that doesn't mean a vaccine would be useless because a C19 antibody response based vaccine still may give immunity for a few years.

@metal-brain said
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_vaccine

Did you read the page you linked to?

@deepthought said
Did you read the page you linked to?

My bet he didn't; And now he will go on to pretend he did.

@deepthought said
Did you read the page you linked to?

Yes, the vaccine is only for people who have already had it. You brought up an interesting example of an exception, but it is very rare. Notice how the corporate news media doesn't mention how likely it is. The truth does not create more fear. That is why they omit the truth.

@proper-knob said
What?

The data coming out of the UK from the The Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre (ICNARC) who looked at 3883 patients in ICU with Covid-19 found they were disproportionately obese and male.

https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports

This is what i'm saying. This virus is having a bad outcome for people who have underlying health conditio ...[text shortened]... re overweight are considerably likely to have an underlying health condition than people who aren't.

There is no doubt about what you are saying. I’ve always been a fan of Brazil and walnuts, unfortunately I’ve also always been a fan of real ale, mashed potatoes, and cake. I am now clinically obese and have type two with a challenged immune system and high blood pressure, them nuts did not help one little bit.