Science
04 Jul 08
04 Jul 08
10 edits
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Skip the first half, it's just video of each separately set to "dramatic music". Well except that the two enemies taunt each other a bit which is cool to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOE4RzS7JPY&feature=related
"The old bulls look down at these stubborn cats, and test their
will"
There are a few misunderstandings both on the narrators part and on
the part of RoyalPanthera who posted this video. First of all, there are no
"bulls" in a flock of elephants (when a female is ready to mate, she will
seek up an appropriate male).
Second of all, there's no more rivalry between elephants and lions as
there is between any other predators and their prey. They don't show off
and taunt each other. The predators test their prey, and the prey
responds with showing that they're not easy for the grabbing.
Also, elephants are actually not a common feast on the lion's dinner
table, simply because of the third, aaaand...
...third, lions (like any predators) will only attack when the energy
required to slain their prey is less than what the prey will give in return,
and when the likelihood of being wounded is close to nothing.
This is why you never see a flock of lions (or any other predator) attack
fully grown and healthy prey, because the cost in energy and the risk of
a larger animal (like the elephant) causing some serious damage is too
big to be worth the trouble. This is also the reason why lions hunt mostly
at night, where the likelihood of surprising their prey is bigger (this is
because they hunt in open spaces).
Instead, lions always attack the weakest (or nearest when they
attack a herd) in any group of animals. When hunting big prey
especially, they will test their dinner by making short runs like they do at
the elephants in the video. If the prey doesn't react too violent but
merely trots after the lion, it's a sign of weakness and the lions rejoice
at the late night dinner party just served to them. Mind you that a
healthy elephant can toss a lion several feet, which could cause serious
injury and immediately make the hunt counter-productive. In fact,
elephants are some of the most vicious animals in that they can easily
stomp and throw most any other animal if not to death, damn near to it.
It's interesting how nature equals things out like this. If lions really were
so powerful and so vicious that they could take on any male elephant,
then obviously there would be no more elephants left, because big is
always better when it comes to food resources so the lions would go for
elephant every time they need food, right? And since elephants copulate
rarely, there's not enough of them to keep feeding the lions.
(Notice the 10 edits? I was wrong on specifics several times. And I
misspelled a lot of words, as I usually do, but I think I got it right now.
😕 )
05 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by coquetteIt's actually a jumbled up mixture of footages. First there's the normal
It just seemed to me that the cats were getting a particularly small elephant and not a huge one. no?
behaviour of the female elephants living in a group using the same
water as the lions. Not much going on here, because obviously, for lions
to attack one of these elephants would be ill advised at best.
Then there's a young male (look at the tusks) being cleverly defeated
by the first lion jumping onto his back. There's no way for him to get it
off him, and that's probably the reason he's slowly losing the battle, the
lion tugging away at his neck.
Then there's an even younger male (notice the stubby tusks) and he's
just defenceless. This is rather odd. As I've been taught, male elephants
often walk in groups of three or four with one alpha male (big, old with
massive tusks) and two or three younger ones. But I guess that was
wrong, or the alpha male and buddies had been shot, or, possibly this
one just got unfortunate.
In any case, I'm curious as to why ATY posted this in science of all
places. Did he really want to discuss behaviour or what?..
05 Jul 08
Ooooh, I may have to stand corrected here on the large bulls not being
attacked by lions:
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/life_history/risk/lion_elephant_predation_2006.html
They hardly ever succeed, though. But a very interesting article none the
less, yes? I was especially surprised to read that the lions attack stray
calves (mostly young males of 4 years and above), and even though
there would be a herd of elephants nearby no one would heed the
cries for help. Apparently the elephants aren't so interested in their
young once they reach a certain age.
06 Jul 08
Originally posted by JigtieIt's interesting footage of animal behavior, that's all. This isn't the "Debates About Science" or "Formal Discussions About Science" or anything like that.
It's actually a jumbled up mixture of footages. First there's the normal
behaviour of the female elephants living in a group using the same
water as the lions. Not much going on here, because obviously, for lions
to attack one of these elephants would be ill advised at best.
Then there's a young male (look at the tusks) being cleverly defeated
by t ...[text shortened]... ed this in science of all
places. Did he really want to discuss behaviour or what?..
06 Jul 08
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI wasn't debating. Merely pointing out a few flaws in what the narrator and
It's interesting footage of animal behavior, that's all. This isn't the "Debates About Science" or "Formal Discussions About Science" or anything like that.
original poster of the video had to say about it. Then I was surprised to find
out that indeed fully grown, healthy elephant bulls had been attacked
(even if only one out of the seven was actually defeated).
06 Jul 08
Originally posted by JigtieOlder elephants often have elaborately curved tusks. At what point does that curvature start to make them less effective as weapons? Do you know?
I wasn't debating. Merely pointing out a few flaws in what the narrator and
original poster of the video had to say about it. Then I was surprised to find
out that indeed fully grown, healthy elephant bulls had been attacked
(even if only one out of the seven was actually defeated).
07 Jul 08
Originally posted by AThousandYoungYou may find it fascinating to learn that elephants are right and left
Older elephants often have elaborately curved tusks. At what point does that curvature start to make them less effective as weapons? Do you know?
tusked, like humans are right or left handed. That means one of the
tusks will always be shorter due to ware. I don't think that that particular
tusk is ever useless as a weapon. Though I'm not sure.
Well, assuming both tusks can grow such that the tip starts heading
inwards and even back towards the elephant, then they're still rather
useful for ramming things. So my answer would be a guess, that they're
never really useless as weapons, if still not as effective once they grow
inwards.
07 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by JigtieI saw that when I was reading about elephants for this thread.
You may find it fascinating to learn that elephants are right and left
tusked, like humans are right or left handed. That means one of the
tusks will always be shorter due to ware. I don't think that that particular
tusk is ever useless as a weapon. Though I'm not sure.
Well, assuming both tusks can grow such that the tip starts heading
inwards and ey're
never really useless as weapons, if still not as effective once they grow
inwards.
It creeps me out to think of charging full force at like a tree and ramming it with my front teeth. 😲