@bunnyknight saidCareful mixing terminology. "Conspiracy theory" cannot be used interchangeably with "theory". They are very different things. By comparison, a theory can be viewed as a well-justified rational explanation of observable data, while a conspiracy theory is an unlikely suspicion that replaces the most obvious explanation.
If the Watergate Scandal has been proven to be absolutely true, then obviously it's no longer a theory, just like the grass being green is not a theory.
The thing is, most controversial subjects have not been proven either true or false because it's either too difficult, or due to man-made obstacles.
So you're agreeing with me that conspiracy theories cannot be true?
@wildgrass saidOh gosh, no! Conspiracy theories can absolutely be true. To imply that they are all untrue is nothing more than cheap propaganda tactic used by conspirators. It's like me saying "Anyone questioning my conclusion is wrong and a nutcase."
So you're agreeing with me that conspiracy theories cannot be true?
@wildgrass saidMany conspiracy facts start out as theories. Do you think Iran/Contra was always accepted as fact? Conspirators deny facts to avoid penalties. Do you think Oliver North was eager to admit he sold heroin and cocaine to raise money for arms dealing during the height of the war on drugs?
Careful mixing terminology. "Conspiracy theory" cannot be used interchangeably with "theory". They are very different things. By comparison, a theory can be viewed as a well-justified rational explanation of observable data, while a conspiracy theory is an unlikely suspicion that replaces the most obvious explanation.
So you're agreeing with me that conspiracy theories cannot be true?
@bunnyknight saidI think you had written that true conspiracy theories are only known to be true by the conspirators, who would obviously not call their own acts a conspiracy theory. From the perspective of a non-conspirator, that would mean all conspiracy theories are false or unknowable.
Oh gosh, no! Conspiracy theories can absolutely be true. To imply that they are all untrue is nothing more than cheap propaganda tactic used by conspirators. It's like me saying "Anyone questioning my conclusion is wrong and a nutcase."
I'm having trouble finding an example of a legitimate conspiracy theory that turned out to be true. Watergate certainly was a conspiracy, but it was outed by investigative journalism rather than illogical conjecture. It was never considered a conspiracy theory because the evidence was overwhelming. Maybe the one where the federal government was poisoning alcohol with benzene during prohibition? Even that one, it was openly discussed in 1926 and I don't think it was ever denied by the gov't once the bodies started piling up.
If your conclusion is based on firm evidence and logical reasoning, there's no need to call it a conspiracy theory.
@wildgrass said"conspiracy theory" is just a phrase that's being overused and abused, so no need to over-analyze it. It basically means a suspicion that a bunch of people committed a great deception or crime, and have covered it up or blamed it on someone else. This sort of thing happens all the time, especially in a society with insanely horrific wealth inequality.
I think you had written that true conspiracy theories are only known to be true by the conspirators, who would obviously not call their own acts a conspiracy theory. From the perspective of a non-conspirator, that would mean all conspiracy theories are false or unknowable.
I'm having trouble finding an example of a legitimate conspiracy theory that turned out to be true. ...[text shortened]... ion is based on firm evidence and logical reasoning, there's no need to call it a conspiracy theory.
Many people who balk at conspiracy theories believe in conspiracy theories. Most democrats believe in a conspiracy that Trump is a puppet of Putin. Does Bill Maher think of himself as a conspiracy theorist? I doubt it.
Most people think Epstein did not kill himself. I think it is 6 out of 7 people that believe the conspiracy theory. Most people believe conspiracy theories. Any people who tell you different are the real nutcases.
@Metal-Brain
So the fact EVERYTHING Trump does helps Putin means NOTHING? Working for years to end the sanctions put in place against Russia because they took over Crimea, holding back military aid to Ukraine in the middle of an active war, while CYA with the bullshyte story he was trying to stop corruption? Trying to get Russia back into the G7, to be the G8 again when it was the attack on Ukraine that got them dumped out in the first place?
Whose side are you on anyway? It doesn't sound like you care much for the national security of the US.
Trump talks on unsecured cell phones CERTAINLY listening to by Russia, China, Iran and you think NO BIG DEAL? Where in the HELL is you head? Are the Trump base now in the midst of losing 50 IQ points? Are you fukking HYPNOTIZED?
@sonhouse saidWhy do you believe that conspiracy theory? There is no evidence Trump helped Putin. There is plenty of evidence Trump may have been trying to stop corruption. Shokin is willing to come to the US and testify. Shokin made a sworn statement subjecting him to perjury if he is found to have lied.
@Metal-Brain
So the fact EVERYTHING Trump does helps Putin means NOTHING? Working for years to end the sanctions put in place against Russia because they took over Crimea, holding back military aid to Ukraine in the middle of an active war, while CYA with the bullshyte story he was trying to stop corruption? Trying to get Russia back into the G7, to be the G8 again when it ...[text shortened]... is you head? Are the Trump base now in the midst of losing 50 IQ points? Are you fukking HYPNOTIZED?
Where is the missing 1.8 billion dollars? Shokin was fired and it is still missing.
&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3niq6pRkGE9OfCo-yDTEOp_EPpqFAq3olWLrDn0hfNuyNa04RbR8aEFsE
@Metal-Brain
What the FUK? Where is the missing FOUR BILLION TRUMP STOLE FROM THE MILITARY BUDGET? You just SAY Trump doesn't help Putin but you are just blowing smoke out your ass.
OF COURSE Trump is helping Putin, Putin HAS something on Trump and you are too dense to see that.
If he is not helping Putin, what is he doing trying to end the sanctions put in place because the Russians FUKKING TOOK OVER CRIMEA?
Why is Trump trying to get Russia back in the G7? Do you seriously think that is somehow going to help the USA?
No, it will legitimize Russia and be saying to them, hey, no big deal, we realize you wanted Crimea and the Ukraine as well and want your former Soviet Union back, don't worry, we will help you, well I, Donald Trump will help you do ALL of that.
Are you so hypnotized you can't see ANY of that?
Trump is pushing the conspiracy theory it was Ukraine started the attack on our democracy in 2016 when we know for a FACT it was Russia.
THAT HELPS RUSSIA. And Barr as we speak is trying his damndest to delegitimize the report that led to that conclusion. ALSO HELPING RUSSIA.
Where in the HELL is your head in all this? Totally blind eye to ALL of this shyte?
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@sonhouse saidStop shouting, you little child. You are occasionally quite right, yet you drown your own arguments in capitals and "FUK"s.
@Metal-Brain
What the FUK? Where is the missing FOUR BILLION TRUMP STOLE FROM THE MILITARY BUDGET?
@Shallow-Blue
Fine, then tell Metal brain what is going on, maybe he listens to you., Me, I get my Irish up and lose it.
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@sonhouse saidWell, don't. It doesn't make you any more convincing.
@Shallow-Blue
Fine, then tell Metal brain what is going on, maybe he listens to you., Me, I get my Irish up and lose it.
As far as the sludge brains of this worlds are concerned, don't bother. They can't be convinced anyway, any more than an atheist can be convinced of there being more than atoms.
@sonhouse saidWhat is your source of information for all those claims? What missing 4 billion? Has Trump ended any sanctions he imposed on Russia? I have never heard of any of those conspiracy theories.
@Metal-Brain
What the FUK? Where is the missing FOUR BILLION TRUMP STOLE FROM THE MILITARY BUDGET? You just SAY Trump doesn't help Putin but you are just blowing smoke out your ass.
OF COURSE Trump is helping Putin, Putin HAS something on Trump and you are too dense to see that.
If he is not helping Putin, what is he doing trying to end the sanctions put in place becaus ...[text shortened]... ELPING RUSSIA.
Where in the HELL is your head in all this? Totally blind eye to ALL of this shyte?
Have you considered the possibility you were misinformed?
@Metal-Brain
Have YOU considered you have been living under a ROCK? You didn't know Trump STOLE near 4 BILLION from the military budget SPECIFICALLY to build his stupid wall? Let's start with that.
@sonhouse saidWhat is your source of information for all those claims? What missing 4 billion? Has Trump ended any sanctions he imposed on Russia? I have never heard of any of those conspiracy theories.
@Metal-Brain
Have YOU considered you have been living under a ROCK? You didn't know Trump STOLE near 4 BILLION from the military budget SPECIFICALLY to build his stupid wall? Let's start with that.
https://www.livescience.com/1956-study-gossip-trumps-truth.html