2 Thessalonians 3:10

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You can smile and pretend this verse is not in the Bible,

John 3:18: "...whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

You dont understand that verse [and many others] because you cherrypick rather than read the whole chapter. Read the whole thing and see what that condemnation is about.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You can smile and pretend this verse is not in the Bible,

John 3:18: "...whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

How do you personally equate that with Romans 2?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
How do you personally equate that with Romans 2?

You mean Romans 2 where they talk about the law?

How does the law stand in Romans 3?

Originally posted by Eladar
You mean Romans 2 where they talk about the law?

How does the law stand in Romans 3?

Specifically, 'When Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts.'

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Specifically, 'When Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts.'

So some of the Gentiles have the Mosaic law written on their hearts, but what about Romans 3?

This is where you are missing Paul's point. Paul is arguing that there is no difference between Gentile and Jew. As you continue to read you find where Paul says the law doesn't save. The Law saves neither Jew nor Gentile.

There are two covenants, the old and the new. The wine skin for the old covenant was purely the law. The wine skin for the new covenant is belief in Jesus Christ as Lord (which brings up a whole new discusdion and a whole new set of herecies).

The original covenant could keep the law within Israel because God could just write the Law on the heart. The new covenant required going out into the world. Belief in Jesus had to be spread in person. The difference between being cloistered in Israel and being spread throughout the world is a self evident difference between the two covenants.

One can't expect to be saved by the rules of the firstcovenant when one lives under the grace of the new covenant.

Originally posted by Eladar
So some of the Gentiles have the Mosaic law written on their hearts, but what about Romans 3?

This is where you are missing Paul's point. Paul is arguing that there is no difference between Gentile and Jew. As you continue to read you find where Paul says the law doesn't save. The Law saves neither Jew nor Gentile.

There are two covenants, the old and ...[text shortened]... o be saved by the rules of the firstcovenant when one lives under the grace of the new covenant.

So by your understanding nobody who lived before Christ under the old covenant, would be saved.

Originally posted by Eladar
So some of the Gentiles have the Mosaic law written on their hearts, but what about Romans 3?

This is where you are missing Paul's point. Paul is arguing that there is no difference between Gentile and Jew. As you continue to read you find where Paul says the law doesn't save. The Law saves neither Jew nor Gentile.

There are two covenants, the old and ...[text shortened]... o be saved by the rules of the firstcovenant when one lives under the grace of the new covenant.

Fortunately for us Gentiles the bible was written by man, and if God does exist,his plan for us is not contained within it.

If God is good, then he simply wants us to be good too. If God is wise, then he understands out limitations and merely wants us to strive to be the best we can be. Everything else is just human rhetoric, and ancient human rhetoric at that.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Fortunately for us Gentiles the bible was written by man, and if God does exist,his plan for us is not contained within it.

If God is good, then he simply wants us to be good too. If God is wise, then he understands out limitations and merely wants us to strive to be the best we can be. Everything else is just human rhetoric, and ancient human rhetoric at that.

Thanks for sharing your statement of faith. It is in opposition to what Paul wrote but is a view consistant with natural man.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So by your understanding nobody who lived before Christ under the old covenant, would be saved.

Not until Jesus died. After Jesus' sacrifice the the righteous would be saved.

They lived under the covenant of the Law so of course all they had was the Law and if they lived by it could be saved.

We now live under the new covenant. With a new agreement comes changes. The change is the new reqirement to accept Jesus as lord. Do you need help in finding where Jesus talks about the wine skins?

Originally posted by Eladar
Not until Jesus died. After Jesus' sacrifice the the righteous would be saved.

They lived under the covenant of the Law so of course all they had was the Law and if they lived by it could be saved.

We now live under the new covenant. With a new agreement comes changes. The change is the new reqirement to accept Jesus as lord. Do you need help in finding where Jesus talks about the wine skins?

So the righteous would be saved under the old law - ie who lived by it
And the righteous would be saved under the new covenant under Christ.

Is that it?

Originally posted by Rajk999
So the righteous would be saved under the old law - ie who lived by it
And the righteous would be saved under the new covenant under Christ.

Is that it?

I think that is what you believe.

I am saying that accepting Jesus Christ as Lord is the reqirement fot the New Covenant. This is what Paul writes.

It is consistant with all of the rest of the New Testament, but not consistant with what you think the nt says.

Originally posted by Eladar
I think that is what you believe.

I am saying that accepting Jesus Christ as Lord is the reqirement fot the New Covenant. This is what Paul writes.

It is consistant with all of the rest of the New Testament, but not consistant with what you think the nt says.

Because of your church influence and because Christians tend to think that they have some kind of monopoly on Jesus Christ, you ignore a few pieces of information in the Bible which completes the picture.

The Bible says clearly the following:
- under the old law those who follow it will enter the Kingdom of God [these are mostly Jews]
- under the new covenant those who follow Christ commandments, will enter the Kingdom of God {these are Christians]
- those who are under neither, will be judged by the law written in their hearts and they will be judged , if they are judged to be righteous they will enter the Kingdom of God. {these are all others]

The 3 group is possible because the Bible states:
- that Jesus died for all people.
- that Jesus is in every human being
- that every man has a conscience to guide them and this came about when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Dont ignore pieces of the Bible you dont like.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Because of your church influence and because Christians tend to think that they have some kind of monopoly on Jesus Christ, you ignore a few pieces of information in the Bible which completes the picture.

The Bible says clearly the following:
- under the old law those who follow it will enter the Kingdom of God [these are mostly Jews]
- under the new co ...[text shortened]... ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Dont ignore pieces of the Bible you dont like.

Dont ignore pieces of the Bible you dont like.

Aren't you ignoring the pieces of the Bible you don't like which clearly say we are saved by faith and not works?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b]Dont ignore pieces of the Bible you dont like.

Aren't you ignoring the pieces of the Bible you don't like which clearly say we are saved by faith and not works?[/b]

I have already explained to you that saved by grace does not mean that one has eternal life.

Paul in Ephesians 2 speaks of saved by grace.
And in Ephesians 5 speaks of eternal life in the Kingdom of God.
They are two different things, if you read it for yourself.
I explained to you how they are different already but you rather ignore me.

I strongly agree with GhostofaDuke who noted that you are out of your depth in these discussions because you lack understanding and continuously repeat the same question over and over even though they have been answered.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have already explained to you that saved by grace does not mean that one has eternal life.

Paul in Ephesians 2 speaks of saved by grace.
And in Ephesians 5 speaks of eternal life in the Kingdom of God.
They are two different things, if you read it for yourself.
I explained to you how they are different already but you rather ignore me.

I strongly ...[text shortened]... ing and continuously repeat the same question over and over even though they have been answered.

Pot