23000 dead

Originally posted by sasquatch672
Who needs friends like you guys? Everybody's bad to you except you. You keep saying that "We don't judge, God judges", but that's such a load of crap. You're the most judgmental pricks on the planet. We're all going to hell because we believe in science and think Leviticus is a load of shit. Well screw you all. You contemptible curs.

Does this go for all Christians on this site?

Originally posted by Halitose
Does this go for all Christians on this site?

Do all Christians tell everybody else they're going to Hell?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Do all Christians tell everybody else they're going to Hell?

Not unconditionally and without extensive substantiation, no.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
See, this exposes you guys for who you really are. First of all, you guys, in this thread, have made yourselves into cartoon characters. You're cartoons. You're all so laughably uneducated and illiterate. Blindfaith101 doesn't even have a first-grader's understanding of the English language. He can't think critically either. My guess is his I ...[text shortened]... iews. If I had my way, you would all get your soma every day and disappear into the salt mines.

And all that just because of a simple question?

Originally posted by no1marauder
The Creator (if there was one) didn't in your book of horrors called the Old Testament. That's a collection of barbarous atrocities and an attempt to morally justify them by saying God was on our side (see Osama Bin Laden). Apparently your Creator also did a piss poor job revealing his plan, since wackos like BF101 and RBHILL come to radically differen ...[text shortened]... ur one, true church. Seems like the Holy Spirit needs some lessons in clear exposition of ideas.

This must be one of the examples you are talking about: EXODUS 14:1-15:21. Here the nation of Israel was brought through the Red Sea as if on dry land.They were amazed at the power that GOD was showing them through Moses. They sang, danced, praised, and glorified THE MOST HIGH GOD.
Two verses latter 15:23, they began to murmer and complain. Here they had just got the freedom they prayed for. They had just been delivered from the most powerful army on the planet. They began to complain about the water. Then on and on etc.etc.etc.
GOD kept HIS WORD and HIS Promises. HE showed that they had a powerful GOD. Who could deliver them in their time of need. But Israel(mankind) did not love GOD. Yes the followed HIM for what they could get, for what HE could do for them. But Israel(mankind) did not love GOD from their Heart. They did not Love GOD as GOD. As the SAVIOR, as the one that would stand with them, provide all things for them, stand and fight for them.
Yes because of Israel's(mankinds) sins against GOD, that caused horror and barbarous atrocities, to the people of the Land. But GOD didnot do this as some would like to think. could we try to look at it from GOD'S point of view?.....................

Originally posted by blindfaith101
This must be one of the examples you are talking about: EXODUS 14:1-15:21. Here the nation of Israel was brought through the Red Sea as if on dry land.They were amazed at the power that GOD was showing them through Moses. They sang, danced, praised, and glorified THE MOST HIGH GOD.
Two verses latter 15:23, they began to murmer and complain. Here they ...[text shortened]... would like to think. could we try to look at it from GOD'S point of view?.....................

............What was the Purpose or reason that GOD favered Israel(mankind)?
What was the purpose of the Nation of Israel(mankind)?
What was the responsibility of the Nation of Israel(mankind)?
Would all the events that you rightly speak of would they have happened. If Israel(mankind) would have loved and followed GOD, with all of their Heart?
There are many more Questions that could be asked. Even if you Believe or donot Believe in GOD. Could we look at these questions from a different point of view?

Originally posted by sasquatch672
See, this exposes you guys for who you really are. First of all, you guys, in this thread, have made yourselves into cartoon characters. You're cartoons. You're all so laughably uneducated and illiterate. Blindfaith101 doesn't even have a first-grader's understanding of the English language. He can't think critically either. My guess is his I ...[text shortened]... iews. If I had my way, you would all get your soma every day and disappear into the salt mines.

And I thought they were ALL on your side.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Let me ask you a question: has Christianity refuted every natural philosopher on every point they ever raised which might be in conflict with some part of their doctrine? I don't think so. Just because your impressed with Acquinas' crap doesn't mean that the entire rest of the human race is rushing out to buy the Summa and agree or refute all his poin ...[text shortened]... nt: Deists do believe that God is bound by the Natural Laws of the universe. Why are they wrong?

Let me ask you a question: has Christianity refuted every natural philosopher on every point they ever raised which might be in conflict with some part of their doctrine? I don't think so.

By "Christianity", I presume you're referring to Christian philosophers.

If the [Deist] philosopher in question is widely known, then my guess would be that Christian philosophers have at least attempted to refute (if not refuted) those views - Craig and Plantinga would be my first guesses for modern Christian philosophers who've attempted that. In any case, I don't know of any major modern Deist philosophers (except maybe Flew, who converted to Deism from Atheism).

Okay - how about you pick a Deist philosopher who argues against the OOMP* (and I'll want to see his arguments - not just his final views; if all he's going to say is "I believe XYZ", then there is nothing to distinguish his views from mine) and I'll try to refute it, using Aquinas' arguments as necessary. Fair enough?

Since you quote Paine a lot, would Paine be a good starting point?

---
* I believe there are fundamental logical objections to omniscience and omnipotence as they are usually defined and so these terms are best understood in terms of "maximal knowledge" and "maximal power" for the discussion in question.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
[b]Let me ask you a question: has Christianity refuted every natural philosopher on every point they ever raised which might be in conflict with some part of their doctrine? I don't think so.

By "Christianity", I presume you're referring to Christian philosophers.

If the [Deist] philosopher in question is widely known, then my guess woul ...[text shortened]... derstood in terms of "maximal knowledge" and "maximal power" for the discussion in question.[/b]

What part of what I am saying is soooooooooo unclear?? I am uninterested in having a "battle of the philosophers"; I'm not going to the local library or search everywhere on-line to find a "Deist philosopher" who directly addresses all the points raised by Acquinas who lived 500 years before Deism, a concept from the Enlightement, existed. I asked YOU to summarize Acquinas arguments concerning WHY a Creator God must necessarily be omnipotent and omniscient. Then I'll pretend I'm a "Deist philosopher" if I'm so inclined and argue the negative. What I'm not going to do is wade through Acquinas' tedious writings to ascertain what he is saying, start arguing against it and then have you, in a truimph of snotnosery say "You are an idiot; Acquinas isn't saying X, he's actually saying Y". Since YOU brought Acquinas' ideas into this discussion as a critique of Deist beliefs (which I have spelled out), it is up to you to clearly elucidate what his arguments are. That's how debates are held; you stake out a point and present arguments why you think your position is true, you don't ask the other guy to figure out what your point is by reading something you might think is the cat's pajamas but most people regard as mindnumbingly dull.

If you wish, you may use passages from Acquinas if you clearly explain what they mean to you. I'm not interested in a debate over what Acquinas means; I will accept your version of Acquinas uncritically. To be quite frank, I have not ever read the entire Age of Reason by Paine as it is mostly a polemic against the absurdities in the Bible, which to my mind needs little refutation. I am mostly interested in Paine's works on political philosophy. And I'm not all that terribly interested in "Deist philosophers" philosophizing about Deism - Deism is based on the premise that the natural order in the universe requires that there be a Creator God. While I believe certain aspects of the Universe (particulary the way the basic forces are set up within the small parameters necessary for a life-possible universe) make the belief in some sort of Creator God more likely, I'm unconvinced it makes a Creator God essential.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
Of course it doesn't. It only goes for the semi-literate judgmental pricks who think they know better than everybody else and for the ones who believe that AIDS is a punishment from God for homosexuality.

Disavow that statement, Halitose, and we can talk.

I don't like abortion. I work actively with several charities, some Christian and some ...[text shortened]... like them were made up, like out of central casting. But no, they're real, and they can vote.

It would be presumptuous of me to contend that AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality. AIDS isn't even limited to the homosexual community. In sub-Saharan Africa, which constitutes over 70% of the HIV/AIDS population, homosexuality is a relatively scarce phenomenon.

One thing I would blame the spread of HIV on - especially in sub-Saharan Africa - is the collapse of family structure and a decline of culturally-conservative morals.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
I'll tell you what - we haven't hooked up yet, so I don't know where you stand. Your posts generally seem to be well researched and you do make an argument, even if I disagree with it. If you're of the "God Hates Fags" crowd, that's just a viewpoint I find absolutely contemptible. (And no, I'm not a "fag".) If you're part of the crowd tha ...[text shortened]... to remind you that he advocates enforcing the death penalty for engaging in homosexual activity.

I believe that GOD is going to enforce HIS WORD. Every Word in THE WORD OF GOD, all of it.

Originally posted by no1marauder
a truimph of snotnosery

You should be banned!

LOL...

snotnosery!