@ Robbie & Galveston: Merry Christmas

Originally posted by FMF
My reputation here is - I think - one of tenacity, patience and dogged civility in the face of [stuff that I accuse robbie and g75 of]

While you are obviously quite tenacious, don't seem to lose patience, and come across as civil; you left out some other stuff. But, that's to be expected - as your reputation for unusually high self-esteem precedes you.

Originally posted by sumydid
While you are obviously quite tenacious, don't seem to lose patience, and come across as civil; you left out some other stuff. But, that's to be expected - as your reputation for unusually high self-esteem precedes you.

A "reputation" is something I don't have any control over. It is by definition what other people think rather than what I think. The same goes for what you claim "precedes" me. It is something in your mind and not mine. I post in the way I post and say the things I say. It's what a debate forum is all about. I certainly do not see myself as "unusual" in any way.

Rather than aim personal remarks at me about issues of "esteem", do you have anything to offer on the current discussion about Christians commemorating the birth of Jesus as Christmas time being "liars".

Originally posted by FMF
Not so long ago, robbie rather embarrassed himself on a thread over a claim he'd made and a bible citation that didn't support it. He had to climb down. And my line of questioning had helped to bring about that climb down. An indignant and chip-spitting robbie then subjected me to........

Yada yada. Again, your reputation precedes you. We get to hear you call Robbie embarassing, indignant, etc., while at the same time, we're so lucky to be reminded how it was *your* line of questioning that brought about such wonderful things.

Wouldn't it be more expedient to just say, "I am great and Robbie sucks as a human being."

Your "lines of questioning," by the way, aren't case-crackers, or really anything special at all. Though you allege that Robbie and G75 avoid your brilliant questions because they "strike at the heart" of their personal shortcomings or whatever; you should understand that the reason they (and we) stop answering your questions is because they are constructed in such away as to be obviously insincere and to simply score points rhetorically. While you maintain that you are so doggedly "civil," the fact is your disingenuous, thinly veiled, mildly sarcastic, rhetorical "lines of questioning" are annoying, inappropriate, insulting at times, and unworthy of sustained responses.

Have a nice day.

Originally posted by sumydid
Wouldn't it be more expedient to just say, "I am great and Robbie sucks as a human being.".

I make no such claim and never have, unless you have a quote of me saying anything remotely like it during any discussions on this forum.

Originally posted by sumydid

Your "lines of questioning," by the way, aren't case-crackers, or really anything special at all. Though you allege that Robbie and G75 avoid your brilliant questions because they "strike at the heart" of their personal shortcomings or whatever; you should understand that the reason they (and we) stop answering your questions is because they are constructed in such away as to be obviously insincere and to simply score points rhetorically. While you maintain that you are so doggedly "civil," the fact is your disingenuous, thinly veiled, mildly sarcastic, rhetorical "lines of questioning" are annoying, inappropriate, insulting at times, and unworthy of sustained responses.

I seem to have earned a sustained response from you here. It's a pity it's not about the thread topic in hand.

Originally posted by FMF
Christmas commemorates the birth of Jesus and is celebrated by almost every Christian in the world. These Christians are not pagans. The birth of Jesus was not "made up from a pagan belief". Christians who celebrate Christmas are not "liars". You said that the Bible condemned Christmas, but when called on to provide a citation, you cannot.

Let me make this as clear as possible. Just because one person or a billion people us this Christmas to commemorate Jesus it does not mean it is truthful and accurate. Just doing this as a good thought does not change that.
The Bible clearly says to "worship God with truth and righteousness".
The origins of Christmas are full of paganistic thoughts and beliefs.
So how could a Christian with accurate and truthful knowlegde of this fact say they are worshipping God with truth? Impossible to do.
You do as you see fit with it and have happiness if it makes you feel good.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not give into something because it feels good and is what everyone else does. Our concern is not to please you or any other man with their customs. Our allegeance and devotion is to God first.


Galatians 4:9-10
Good News Translation (GNT)

9 But now that you know God—or, I should say, now that God knows you—how is it that you want to turn back to those weak and pitiful ruling spirits? Why do you want to become their slaves all over again? 10 You pay special attention to certain days, months, seasons, and years.

There is only 1 command in the Bible to observe that Jesus gave and it is this:

1 Corinthians 11:25-26
Good News Translation (GNT)

25 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup and said, “This cup is God's new covenant, sealed with my blood. Whenever you drink it, do so in memory of me.”

26 This means that every time you eat this bread and drink from this cup you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.


There is not one mention by Jesus or his followers to observe anyones birthday. Birthdays were only celebrated by non Christians and pagan peoples.

Originally posted by sumydid
Yada yada. Again, your reputation precedes you. We get to hear you call Robbie embarassing, indignant, etc., while at the same time, we're so lucky to be reminded how it was *your* line of questioning that brought about such wonderful things.

Wouldn't it be more expedient to just say, "I am great and Robbie sucks as a human being."

Your "lines of que ...[text shortened]... riate, insulting at times, and unworthy of sustained responses.

Have a nice day.

Yep. I still don't know why I answer his post. I must need help...Lol

Originally posted by galveston75
There is not one mention by Jesus or his followers to observe anyones birthday.

Where is the bible's condemnation of commemorating the birth of Jesus you claimed there is?

I am not looking for "not one mention" of something.

I am looking for the biblical condemnation of it that you think gives you justification for calling billions of Christians "liars".

Originally posted by galveston75
Let me make this as clear as possible. Just because one person or a billion people us this Christmas to commemorate Jesus it does not mean it is truthful and accurate.

Just because 7 or 8 million people in your denomination do not commemorate the birth of Jesus, by the same reckoning, does not mean your stance is "truthful and accurate". But more importantly - and strictly within your own terms of reference - without a biblical reference to the condemnation you asserted there was [turns out you don't have one], just because 7 or 8 million people in your denomination claim that billions and billions of Christians are carrying out pagan practices and telling "lies", does not mean what you are saying is "truthful and accurate".

Originally posted by FMF
Where is the bible's condemnation of commemorating the birth of Jesus you claimed there is?

I am not looking for "not one mention" of something.

I am looking for the biblical condemnation of it that you think gives you justification for calling billions of Christians "liars".

Uh, Christmas did not exist then did it? Nope, so how could the Bible mention it by name especially as it wasn't really a thing the later church instagated for a few hundred years, which that in itself shows the early Christians did not do such a thing as celebrate Jesus's birth.

Stilling ones identity in this computer age was not mentioned either as well as many things that are also wrong today. But just because the Bible didn't mention it does not allow one to do that to another person does it?

Originally posted by galveston75
The origins of Christmas are full of paganistic thoughts and beliefs.

I know of no Christians here who have "pagan thoughts and beliefs". At Christmas they celebrate the birth of Christ, just as they commemorate his death at Easter.

Originally posted by galveston75
Uh, Christmas did not exist then did it? Nope, so how could the Bible mention it by name especially as it wasn't really a thing the later church instagated for a few hundred years, which that in itself shows the early Christians did not do such a thing as celebrate Jesus's birth.

Well post-early Christians and modern Christians commemorate the birth of Christ. What "lie" is it you reckon they are telling?

Originally posted by FMF
I know of no Christians here who have "pagan thoughts and beliefs". At Christmas they celebrate the birth of Christ, just as they commemorate his death at Easter.

And that is fine if they choose to do that. I clearly said earlier that most probably do not know the facts of Christmas. But..many do. For those who do, that is between then and God isn't it?

Originally posted by galveston75
Uh, Christmas did not exist then did it? Nope, so how could the Bible mention it by name ...

Are you suggesting there are no predictions in the bible or that it contains no clear advice about the future? I hardly think you are. You and robbie have claimed in the past that the NT specifically predicted the formation of the JW organisation despite the fact it did not exist in Biblical times and was not mentioned by name.

Originally posted by galveston75
And that is fine if they choose to do that. I clearly said earlier that most probably do not know the facts of Christmas. But..many do. For those who do, that is between then and God isn't it?

You said Christians who celebrate the birth of Jesus are telling "lies".

What "lies"?