@josephw

@josephw said
There are many metaphors, allegories, idioms, figures of speech, parables and other linguistic aspects of the scriptures just like in every other writings.

Good! At last.

Although I’m not sure why you’ve been so furtive over it for the past 5 years but at least we can agree on this now.

I too think the Bible includes many “metaphors, allegories, idioms and figures of speech”, the entire Book of Revelation is packed full of them from front to back.

@divegeester said
Good! At last.

Although I’m not sure why you’ve been so furtive over it for the past 5 years but at least we can agree on this now.

I too think the Bible includes many “metaphors, allegories, idioms and figures of speech”, the entire Book of Revelation is packed full of them from front to back.

And all the metaphors, allegories, idioms, parables and figures of speech are about realities.

For example; the Bible says that Satan can appear as an angel of light. What does that mean? Consider the context in which it appears.

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Abstractions right?

So it is with the idea of a serpent. But who knows, perhaps Satan inhabited the body of a snake and spoke to Eve. Devils were cast into a herd of swine. Real devils. Real swine. Maybe a real snake.

Who knows? We're a long way from the environment that existed before the entrance of corruption that pervades the world we know today, and we are far from what Adam was in his genius.

Now it seems we sit around and bitch at each other about things we really know very little about, trying to cypher out its meaning and purpose.

@josephw said
And all the metaphors, allegories, idioms, parables and figures of speech are about realities.

Sure. But there wasn’t actually a literal serpent which talked in the garden of Eden was there.

There isn’t an actual real tree which gives life either.

Nor is there actually a real whore riding an actual 7 headed beast in Revelation, nor real horsemen of an apocalypse riding real horses, nor real bowls being poured out, nor are there real lakes full of burning sulphur and brimstone into which billions of people are being ceremoniously thrown into and kept alive forever.

So…

@josephw said

Who knows?

Indeed, who really knows.

So if we don’t know what some of these metaphors are indicating then what we can do is illuminate what they don’t indicate.

@divegeester said
But there wasn’t actually a literal serpent which talked in the garden of Eden was there.

I'll overlook the grammatical error of that sentence. 😒

There was a literal serpent. It's name is Satan, and he spoke to Eve, in a literal garden.

@josephw said
There was a literal serpent. It's name is Satan, and he spoke to Eve, in a literal garden.

The serpent was allegorical, surely, and not literally a serpent, right?

@josephw said
I'll overlook the grammatical error of that sentence. 😒

There was a literal serpent. It's name is Satan, and he spoke to Eve, in a literal garden.

We have literal evidence that we evolved from more primitive creatures (even if you only go back a few million years). Was Eve therefore such a primitive creature?

@divegeester said
There isn’t an actual real tree which gives life either.

A conceptual error on your part, again.

A "tree of life", not a tree that "gives" life.

You stumble cognitively because you spiritualize the narrative. A real man and woman, real animals, real earth, sun, moon and stars, trees too. Vegetables to eat, and fruit.

If you think the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is anything other than a literal tree, please tell what you think it is referring to, whether metaphorically or otherwise.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
We have literal evidence that we evolved from more primitive creatures (even if you only go back a few million years).

No you don't. If you had solid evidence it would be demonstrable.

@fmf said
The serpent was allegorical, surely, and not literally a serpent, right?

I've seen serpents. They're real snakes.

God is real. Creation and everything in it is real, except what's not.

Satan is a real being. The term "serpent" is applied to Satan in the narrative of a real event that occurred in the real garden of Eden.

@divegeester said
Nor is there actually a real whore riding an actual 7 headed beast in Revelation, nor real horsemen of an apocalypse riding real horses, nor real bowls being poured out, nor are there real lakes full of burning sulphur and brimstone into which billions of people are being ceremoniously thrown into and kept alive forever.

It's all very real, and will really happen in a real world, in real life, just as the scriptures say.

You're so hung up on the words that you can't understand the interpretation, meaning and application of them in practical reality.

Did Jesus turn the water into wine? Did Jesus walk on the water?
Did God raise Jesus from the dead?

Are there things in existence that you can't see or hear?

Revelation gives descriptions of things not perceptible by the physical senses, but have very real applications in the very real world we live in. You can count on it all coming to pass.

@josephw said

There was a literal serpent.

But in another thread you said that the serpent was a “metaphor”.

You seem confused.

@josephw said
A conceptual error on your part, again.

A "tree of life", not a tree that "gives" life.

You stumble cognitively because you spiritualize the narrative. A real man and woman, real animals, real earth, sun, moon and stars, trees too. Vegetables to eat, and fruit.

If you think the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is anything other than a literal tree, please tell what you think it is referring to, whether metaphorically or otherwise.

It wasn’t a literal real tree with branches and roots and leaves Josephw, surely even you realise that?

@josephw said
I've seen serpents. They're real snakes.

God is real. Creation and everything in it is real, except what's not.

Satan is a real being. The term "serpent" is applied to Satan in the narrative of a real event that occurred in the real garden of Eden.

In another thread you were adamant that the talking serpent was a metaphor.

@josephw said
It's all very real

You’re telling us readers that you believe that everything in Revelation, including all those things I listed in post, are real…as in literally real things?