Originally posted by duecerMT 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.
I have not once second guessed his words, but rather offered to you a a contextual meaning for them. The goats are the pretenders, the sheep are the sincere. But what if a sincere person is a quadriplegic unable to do these things? Is there a different set of rules for the able bodied?
And both Christ and Paul explained what these works were .. I listed many for you.
Pretenders and sincere? Where did you get that from? Its not in the Bible.
Sincere and Quadriplegic ? Again not in the Bible.
Your exceptional scenarios will be dealt with by Christ.
Dont offer me any contextual meanings. Just listen to Christ and you will be fine.
Originally posted by Rajk999reward is the operative word, not condemn
MT 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.
And both Christ and Paul explained what these works were .. I listed many for you.
Pretenders and sincere? Where did you get that from? Its not in the Bible.
Sincere and Quadriplegic ? Again not in the Bible.
Yo ...[text shortened]... h by Christ.
Dont offer me any contextual meanings. Just listen to Christ and you will be fine.
"I have not once second guessed his words, but rather offered to you a a contextual meaning for them. The goats are the pretenders, the sheep are the sincere. But what if a sincere person is a quadriplegic unable to do these things? Is there a different set of rules for the able bodied?"
No you've asked a good question. Of course there are not two or three sets of rules. God know's our situations and our limitations both physically and mentally. I asked the question earlier and no one has commented on it yet but the question was reguarding the parrable in Matt 24th chapter. This is speaking of the time when Jesus took the throne and looked back at humans here and wanted to see who and what they had done with his commands to do the preaching work he commanded us to do when he was on earth originally. He likend it to ones who were given talents ( or the knowledge to teach the mesage Jesus taught us ) and went out and did the best each one could do to make a profit with their talents. Of course this parable really means to teach others what Jesus taught us and with the hope of these people learning what we've learned and with the finale hope of gaining eternal life.
But this also show's that some would have this knowledge but basically hide it and do nothing to share it with others. This is where the works come into play. We can't just know what Jesus said, we have to share it.
Matt 25 goes into this more with the story of the virgins that had the light of the truth and how some used it as they were supposed to and how some were foolish with their knowledge and fell asleep and did not do as they should have.
In both of these parables Jesus was shown as coming back to inspect and see who used there abilities to the fullest they could. And he also condemend those who were foolish and did nothing.
Originally posted by Rajk999these premises too hard for you? glad I offered nothing too complicated.
MT 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.
And both Christ and Paul explained what these works were .. I listed many for you.
Pretenders and sincere? Where did you get that from? Its not in the Bible.
Sincere and Quadriplegic ? Again not in the Bible.
Yo ...[text shortened]... h by Christ.
Dont offer me any contextual meanings. Just listen to Christ and you will be fine.
pretenders are the hypocrites....get it?
quadriplegic is a medical term, of course its not in the bible, biblical language would say cripple yes? Jesus healed the crippled so that question seems more difficult to answer...or does it? perhaps we should read what Jesus says in Mark 2?
Mark 2
Jesus Heals a Paralytic
1A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2So many gathered that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them. 4Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on. 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7"Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
8Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? 9Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'? 10But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . ." He said to the paralytic, 11"I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home." 12He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, "We have never seen anything like this!"
which is easier Raj? to forgive the sins of another, or to heal them and make them whole? Only Jesus has the power to make people whole, whether spiritually or physically. We as human beings are unable to heal what is broken within us, only through the power of Christ are we made new. No amount of works can purchase our redemption, for we are like the paralytic, helpless to rise out of our condition. No Raj, salvation is by Grace, works are the outward sign of that healing process.
unless you can answer, adequately, my simply questions, then I must decline further argument with you on this matter as I feel I have successfully argued my point, and your counter points have been laughable at best
Originally posted by duecerThere is no argument and no points and counter points and no discussion.
these premises too hard for you? glad I offered nothing too complicated.
pretenders are the hypocrites....get it?
quadriplegic is a medical term, of course its not in the bible, biblical language would say cripple yes? Jesus healed the crippled so that question seems more difficult to answer...or does it? perhaps we should read what Jesus says in Mark 2 ...[text shortened]... successfully argued my point, and your counter points have been laughable at best
What Christ said is simple and straightforward. What you have done is to deny what Christ said. If you are comfortable with your beliefs then good luck to you.
Originally posted by Rajk999Of course it is - see my previous post about King David who committed murder and adultery after being a man after god's own hearth all his life. Repentance is not a one off occurrence.
So you are agreeing with me.
A man who repents of his sins and accepts Christ and is 'born again' in 2005, but who continues to sin, even becomes an atheist and dies an unrepentant sinner in 2010, cannot get eternal life according to you.
Then how can you say that you can never lose your salvation. It is possible to do evil deeds after you accept Christ.
Think about the prodigal son also - once a son always a son.
Originally posted by Rajk999You are confusing judgment with salvation. Salvation puts us beyond condemnation not beyond judgment - we store up riches in heaven, and yes we will be still be judged on our works but being beyond condemnation we are free from the second death. It's so simple - edit rather - I wish you could see it.
MT 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.
And both Christ and Paul explained what these works were .. I listed many for you.
Pretenders and sincere? Where did you get that from? Its not in the Bible.
Sincere and Quadriplegic ? Again not in the Bible.
Yo ...[text shortened]... h by Christ.
Dont offer me any contextual meanings. Just listen to Christ and you will be fine.
Originally posted by divegeesterYou are still refusing to see the question Im asking. How can you know who repents and who does not. Im asking about a man who formerly accepts Christ, then sins and then does not repent. What then?
Of course it is - see my previous post about King David who committed murder and adultery after being a man after god's own hearth all his life. Repentance is not a one off occurrence.
Think about the prodigal son also - once a son always a son.
If you cant answer the question I asked then please ignore it instead of answering a question I did not ask.
Note that David and the prodigal son both repented.
We will each stand before the judgment seat of God who is one the throne i.e. Yeshua/Jesus/God saves - THE (single new covenant) name of the father and of the son and of the holy ghost. In him we live and move and have our being, in him the FULLNESS of the Godhead dwelt in bodily form, and in him only is our salvation - Almighty God (old covenant name Jehovah/Yahweh) wrapped in flesh reconciling himself to to the world in a single finished act of obedience paying the price for ALL people's sins, past present and future.
That's who I believe the scripture's reveal him to be and yes he will judge us on our works and reward each man accordingly BUT those who are in Christ are free from condemnation in that judgment.
Originally posted by Rajk999It is not for you or I to know or judge - read Duecer's post it is spot on. It is not for us to judge! Just because you can't judge someone as to their salvation doesn't mean we change doctrine.
You are still refusing to see the question Im asking. How can you know who repents and who does not. Im asking about a man who formerly accepts Christ, then sins and then does not repent. What then?
If you cant answer the question I asked then please ignore it instead of answering a question I did not ask.
Note that David and the prodigal son both repented.
Edit : yes I know they repented! but they never lost their salvation in the first place my friend. Read the account of David post Bathshebagate and see how God dealt with him though - man he was seriously judged by God and disciplined big time. But he was still the man after God's heart.
Originally posted by divegeesterWhew !! You and Duecer are worse than Galveston and the JWs !
It is not for you or I to know or judge - read Duecer's post it is spot on. It is not for us to judge! Just because you can't judge someone as to their salvation doesn't mean we change doctrine.
Finally you say something that answers the question I have been asking.
The bottom line is that YOU OR I CANNOT KNOW WHO WILL GET SALVATION. So all this talk of salvation being guaranteed or salvation being assured or once saved always saved OR however you want to put it .. are not correct statements ... becuase they all imply THAT YOU KNOW ... AND YOU DONT !!
Salvation depends on the judgment of Christ and on what we have done subsequent to our acceptance of Him. We need to do the following :
- refrain from sin as best we can
- follow His commandments
- do good works
- pray and ask for forgiveness of sins etc etc
Failure to do this implies that we have not accepted Christ. Our statement of faith is shallow and are just empty words. We would be like the goats referred to in Matt 25.
Originally posted by Rajk999Wow...someone worse them me and the JW's? Unbelieveable. That's almost like a complement. Lol.
Whew !! You and Duecer are worse than Galveston and the JWs !
Finally you say something that answers the question I have been asking.
The bottom line is that YOU OR I CANNOT KNOW WHO WILL GET SALVATION. So all this talk of salvation being guaranteed or salvation being assured or once saved always saved OR however you want to put it .. are not correct ...[text shortened]... of faith is shallow and are just empty words. We would be like the goats referred to in Matt 25.