06 Sep 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobiepotato I say potAto
this has to be the lamest excuse ever! if we are to believe duecer, then all the words that Christ uttered to his faithful disciples have no meaning for us, the sermon on the mount for example was spoken to his apostles and a crowd that had gathered on the mount of olives, was that simply for persons living two thousand years ago? is that really th ...[text shortened]... bility to reason with ones own mind has shown this idea up for what it truly is, a non reality.
07 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by duecerSo the question here is how does one know if he's saved first off, and then if he commits 1 bad sin or 3 or 10 bad sins or whatever, how does he know he's still saved? Does he get a special message from God that he's about to lose his salvation or if he's used up his chances? I've known many in my life that say their saved but can never answer if it can be used up.....
I never claimed that someone who was unrepentant would be saved. now your just making things up.
Once a person encounters Christ and accepts him as their savior, a fundamental change takes place. the sinner through the grace of God, is able to reach out and accept that sanctifying power offered through Christ. However simply going through the motions is no ...[text shortened]... ffer, and they have not shared the gospel with anyone, is that person saved? Unquestionably yes.
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by Rajk999For the record, I don't believe what you posted here about me. It is impossible to be saved and not be unrepentant of your sin.
The fact that you and Divegeester and JosephW can claim that unrepentant murderers, child molesters etc can get eternal life is a clear indication that your understanding of the doctrine of Christ is extremely twisted.
All of the examples given of sinners in the Bible were examples of sinners who repented.
Im repeating the question. Can an unrepentant ...[text shortened]... ot a guarantee that once you claim to have faith that your good works will automatically follow.
Your second point about works earning you eternal life is an error, according to biblical scripture.
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75"Forgiveness is there if deserved" Did you really say that? Deserved on what basis? Once again you are back to human effort -
Did I say forgievness would not be there "if deserved"? So your secure with the fact that your saved?
"The heart of man is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?". Jer 17:9
I'm afraid we are so far apart in out understanding of the redemptive work of Christ that it is pointless talking about it.
Sorry but I can't play this at the moment.
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75You are the judge of all the earth also now are you?
Also Rev 21:8 speaks of murderers, fonicators, etc, that will not be saved. So if one has declared that Jesus has saved him but at a latter time commits this type sin and continues on, there is no slavation for him.
How can you draw a deep doctrinal stand point from this verse you have just looked up.
How many times should a man be forgiven 70x7
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75A person saved by the redemptive work of Jesus Christ cannot lose their salvation. This does not preclude them from discipline.
So the question here is how does one know if he's saved first off, and then if he commits 1 bad sin or 3 or 10 bad sins or whatever, how does he know he's still saved? Does he get a special message from God that he's about to lose his salvation or if he's used up his chances? I've known many in my life that say their saved but can never answer if it can be used up.....
If it was possible to lose your salvation through sin; at what point would the salvation be taken away (this would mean the person being returned to their per-regenerative state): would it be after 3 sins or maybe 50 smalls one or just one bad one? Where would the tipping point be? Could I get my salvation back? Could I do some counterbalancing good works to make up for my sins - maybe say some extra prayers or penance or hail Mary's!! Do you see where this doctrine of error leads?
The Lord said "no-one can deliver out of my hand". His work is perfect and finished.
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by divegeesterChrist disagrees. Read Matt 25.
For the record, I don't believe what you posted here about me. It is impossible to be saved and not be unrepentant of your sin.
Your second point about works earning you eternal life is an error, according to biblical scripture.
08 Sep 10
Originally posted by Rajk999read through it a few times, even read some commentary on it. Nowhere does it say that works are a requirement for salvation. The parables do however make a notable distinction between the sincere and the hypocrite. In the everyday life of a Christian community it can be impossible to distinguish between the two, only the Sheppard will know the difference. That speaks to me of a salvation that has taken root internally, because the outward signs make it impossible for humans to tell the difference
Christ disagrees. Read Matt 25.
08 Sep 10
not quite so fast there my friend, have you never read, Joel 2:32, it reads
(Joel 2:32) . . .And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe;. . .
cross referenced and directly quoted by Paul,
(Acts 2:21) . . .And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”’
also at
(Romans 10:13) . . .For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.. . .
the scripture literally reads, 'those that are evangelising are the ones that will be saved', no correlation between works and salvation, i don't think so!
08 Sep 10
Originally posted by duecerChrist is saying in Matt 25 that those who do good works for example:
read through it a few times, even read some commentary on it. Nowhere does it say that works are a requirement for salvation. The parables do however make a notable distinction between the sincere and the hypocrite. In the everyday life of a Christian community it can be impossible to distinguish between the two, only the Sheppard will know the difference. Th ...[text shortened]... root internally, because the outward signs make it impossible for humans to tell the difference
- feed the poor
- give water to the thirsty
- clothe the naked
- house the homeless....
.. will get eternal life. Those who do not will get sent into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
In other passages Christ said he will judge every man according to his works. Pauls said 'faith without works is dead' .. what about the word DEAD dont you understand?
08 Sep 10
Originally posted by divegeesterSo you are agreeing with me.
.. It is impossible to be saved and not be unrepentant of your sin.
...
A man who repents of his sins and accepts Christ and is 'born again' in 2005, but who continues to sin, even becomes an atheist and dies an unrepentant sinner in 2010, cannot get eternal life according to you.
Then how can you say that you can never lose your salvation. It is possible to do evil deeds after you accept Christ.
08 Sep 10
Originally posted by Rajk999many atheist's do those very same things, will they be saved as well?
Christ is saying in Matt 25 that those who do good works for example:
- feed the poor
- give water to the thirsty
- clothe the naked
- house the homeless....
.. will get eternal life. Those who do not will get sent into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
In other passages Christ said he will judge every man [b]according to ...[text shortened]... Pauls said 'faith without works is dead' .. what about the word DEAD dont you understand?[/b]
Those acts are an outpouring of our inward transformation. What of the person incapable of doing any of those things? are they lost forever?
08 Sep 10
Originally posted by duecerChrist is the judge and you are second guessing His words.
many atheist's do those very same things, will they be saved as well?
Those acts are an outpouring of our inward transformation. What of the person incapable of doing any of those things? are they lost forever?
Christ said in very plain simple language that in order to get salvation, you must:
1. have faith
2. be baptised
3. do good works.
ALL THREE are all part of the formula according to him. How he will judge is not my call. I believe in Christ, and his judgment will be fair.
Both Christ and Paul spent a lot of time talking about 'loving your neighbour as yourself' and doing good works. Not all those who claim to have faith will do good works or get eternal life.
08 Sep 10
Originally posted by Rajk999I have not once second guessed his words, but rather offered to you a a contextual meaning for them. The goats are the pretenders, the sheep are the sincere. But what if a sincere person is a quadriplegic unable to do these things? Is there a different set of rules for the able bodied?
Christ is the judge and you are second guessing His words.
Christ said in very plain simple language that in order to get salvation, you must:
1. have faith
2. be baptised
3. do good works.
ALL THREE are all part of the formula according to him. How he will judge is not my call. I believe in Christ, and his judgment will be fair.
Both Christ and P ...[text shortened]... oing good works. Not all those who claim to have faith will do good works or get eternal life.